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Braves NickNOBs, Continued

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[Editor’s Note: For the first two installments in this series, look here and here.]

Well well well, look what we have here — Jimmy Wynn in nickNOB mode. I recently obtained that photo from the Braves. It’s the only color image of their 1976 nickNOBs I’ve ever seen. Unfortunately, they have only one other nickNOB photo in their archives, and it’s the Andy Messersmith “Channel 17” shot that we’ve already seen. Still, we’re getting closer, bit by bit.

Speaking of which, we also have two new nickNOB pics that have been turned up by reader Jerry Wolper, whose devotion to this particular project continues to impress:

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Okay, so the image quality isn’t great, but I’ll take what I can get here. The first shot shows Rowland Office, who wore “Row,” and the bottom one is Darrell Evans, who wore “Howdy” (as in Howdy Doody). Both of these had been listed on our chart before but had been unconfirmed until now.

Jerry’s biggest contribution, however, is that he noticed a visit that we’d gotten from an important figure in the nickNOB saga. Here’s the deal: The last time I wrote about the nickNOBs was on June 27. The following afternoon, June 28, a comment was posted to that entry by Bob Hope, who was the Braves’ PR Director back in the 1970s. I usually track an entry’s comments throughout the day it’s posted, but I rarely go back to see if any additional comments have been posted over the subsequent few days, so I hadn’t seen Bob’s communiqué until last Friday, when Jerry pointed it out to me. Here’s what Bob posted to the site on June 28:

I was the director of public relations and promotions for the Braves and Ted Turner in 1976, when Ted bought the team. We had a philosophy that we needed to promote really hard, since we knew the team wouldn’t be very good, but we also didn’t have any money to spend on promotions. So we had to do things that generated publicity. We would say, “It is better to go down the street aa the village idiot and be noticed than to not be noticed at all.” We would do things that would stir what we called “harmless controversy” and get in the news but didn’t really hurt anyone. …

The idea of putting nicknames on the back was just to get attention, do something a little different. [Pitcher Andy] Messersmith had agreed to wear number 17 because the TV station was channel 17. That had nothing to do with the nickname idea, but then we realized that putting his nickname as CHANNEL would read CHANNEL 17. We knew baseball would step in and stop it, but we would get lots of publicity. The nickname BLUTO that replaced it was just to come up with something that seemed even dumber-sounding than CHANNEL 17 — not sure where it came from. As I recall, nicknames were my idea. CHANNEL was Ted’s, which seemed to make perfect sense to us at the time. Hope this helps.

Bob included a link to his PR agency, so I shot him a note and asked if he’d be willing to let me pick his brain about the nickNOBs. He responded almost immediately and couldn’t have been nicer. Here’s how our conversation went:

Uni Watch: First, I want to confirm a few things with you. I’ve read that the nicknames weren’t used at the beginning of the season but were added soon thereafter. Is that right?

Bob Hope: Yeah, we added them maybe a week or so after Andy Messersmith made his first start.

UW: And the nicknames were your idea?

BH: I’m gonna say yes, with the caveat that it was one of those things where we were all sitting around talking about it.

UW: How was each individual nickname chosen? Like, did you approach the players..?

BH: Yeah, I just asked them. Some of them cared, some didn’t.

UW: Did every single player participate?

BH: Oh, absolutely. Every player had a nickname, even if we had to make one up. And they were fine, they enjoyed it.

UW: One of my readers says he recalls the player Adrian Devine wearing “Bing” as his nickname, which was a reference to Bing Devine, who was then the Cardinals’ GM. I haven’t seen that one listed in print anywhere — it’s just something one of my readers remembers. Do you recall that one?

BH: Sure, that’s true. I remember that. The players all called him Bing anyway, because Bing Devine was a baseball name.

UW: I want to go over a few others that I think are probably legit but that I don’t have visual confirmation for. Vic Correll, “Bird Dog”?

BH: Sure, because of his hunting.

UW: Bruce Dal Canton, “Prof”?

BH: Yes, because if you’d known Bruce, he came across as very professorial, so they called him Professor.

UW: Roger Moret was “Gallo”?

BH: Right. I’ve never quite figured out where that came from.

UW: But you remember it?

BH: Oh yeah, absolutely.

UW: Did Phil Neikro wear “Knucksie”?

BH: Right, yes.

UW: And Marty Perez was “Taco”?

BH: Yes, because the players called him that.

UW: One thing that’s come up is some confusion regarding Jerry Royster. We know he wore “J.Bird,” but some sources also indicate that he wore “Rooster.” Did he switch?

BH: No. He never wore “Rooster.” Just “J.Bird.” [This matches up with what Royster himself recently told me, but it’s good to know that Bob’s memory matches up on this point. ”” PL]

UW: Whose idea was it to have Earl Williams wear “Heavy”?

BH: It must have been his, because I don’t think anyone else would have done that. He was sort of an interesting, reasonably gregarious guy. He didn’t care — I think he viewed himself not as a heavy guy in terms of his weight, but as a guy who would, you know, force things in order to get them to happen.

UW: There was a Sports Illustrated article back in 1976 indicating that someone — we don’t know who it was — wore “Mo.” Do you recall who that might have been?

BH: I think if I looked at the roster, I could probably figure it out.

UW: I did that myself, and it looks like it could have been pitcher Carl Morton or first baseman Willie Montañez.

BH: Probably Carl Morton. It wouldn’t have been Willie Montañez.

UW: Why not?

BH: I can’t remember what his nickname was, but “Mo” wouldn’t have been it.

UW: Why were the nicknames abandoned?

BH: Ted Turner was ambivalent in his attitudes about things. We wanted to do things that would get us attention and get us on the news, but we knew that certain things, like the nicknames, would probably only last for a little while and then we’d go back to being traditional.

UW: Do you recall when you stopped wearing them?

BH: Not exactly, but we didn’t wear ’em more than about a month.

UW: Oh, I think it was longer than that. Definitely for most of May and well into June. And you say you started shortly after the start of the season, so that means most of April, too.

BH: Hmmm. My guess, then, is that we’d probably abandoned them by the All-Star Game.

UW: Yes, you’d definitely stopped wearing them by July.

BH: That sounds right.

UW: Now, I know you run your own company these days. And it occurs to me that if you’re still in this business, you must have been very young when you worked for the Braves.

BH: Absolutely. I became PR director for the Atlanta Braves when I was 24 years old. Luck plays a big role in this — I had worked my way through college there, so I’d been there a long time, and then my boss, Lee Walburn, left. That was in February of 1972, and we were supposed to host the All-Star Game that summer, and Lee and I were the ones who’d been working on it. Lee told them that he thought I could do the job, and he also said, “Remember, if you give the job to someone else and then Bob gets upset and leaves, you’re really screwed, because he’s the only one who knows what’s going on.” So they came to me and said, “Look, you’re very young for this job. So we’re gonna give it to you, but if it becomes too much, don’t be afraid to ask for help.” And I said fine. So at 24 I was running the Major League Baseball All-Star Game. And of course soon after that we realized Henry Aaron had a shot at breaking Babe Ruth’s home run record, and right after that came Ted Turner, so I was havin’ a jolly old time.

UW: Sounds like you were in the right place at the right time.

BH: Sure was.


So that was my chat with Bob. Based on the information he provided, along with the two latest photos Jerry Wolper has discovered, I’ve once again updated our master chart of Braves nickNOBs, which now looks like this:
[table id=17 /]

And that’s where we stand as of now. I’ll continue to update this project as events warrant.

(Special thanks to Jim Misudek in the Braves PR department for coming up with the Jimmy Wynn photo.)

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Penn State query: Quite a few readers have asked me some version of the following question: Should Penn State change its football uniforms in the wake of the child rape scandal?

It’s an interesting question, and I can see arguments on both sides of the question. But I’m not so interested in offering my own take on this, at least not yet. I’m more interested in hearing what you think.

Ground rules: No fair saying, “Their uniforms suck, so of course they should change them,” and no fair saying, “They should just scrap the football program altogether” (because let’s face it, they’re gonna play football again at some point, whether it’s this fall or next fall or whenever). Just stick to this basic question: Should the Nittany Lions change their uniforms specifically as a response to the Sandusky/Paterno scandal? Why or why not? Let me know what you think. Thanks.

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Collector’s Corner

By Brinke Guthrie

Paul wrote a nice tribute to Electric Football inventor Norman Sas last week on ESPN, but I wanted to give Sas one more plug. Man, in the early 1970s, Tudor was a big deal for me. I used to order teams from them all the time. I’ll never forget the mailing address, either. I probably had about 20 teams; but for the Bengals and Cowboys, I had both home and away. I chucked the metal game board/field fairly quickly. What I would do is just line up the players on our living room table, imagining plays and moving them manually. Kept ’em all in a nice royal blue plastic fishing tackle box with dual trays, with all my NFL booklets and extra numbers in the lower compartment. Between this, the vaunted 1973 NFL Playbook, NFL Strategy, and This Week in the NFL with Summerall and Brookshier, I learned a lot about the NFL. With that in mind, here’s everything Tudor on eBay in one easy link.

As for the rest of this week’s eBay finds:

• Here’s a terrific set of 1974 WFL stickers.

• One of my favorite sports logos ever is featured on this Indianapolis Racers puck — plus it’s signed by someone named Gretzky.

• Daggone, if we didn’t already have too many glasses, I’d want to bid on these 1968 Bengals schedule glasses myself.

• One more from the Queen City: Check out this nice leather baseball shoulder bag with the inscription “700 WLW Reds On Radio” stitched on.

• From reader Mike Williams comes this very cool early-1900s baseball schedule. “Best part is the back-cover advert, which includes the phrase, ‘Nuf Ced,'” says Mike.

• Boston Bruins fans, dig deep for this vintage bobblehead.

• Self-professed “longtime lurker” J.G. Barber wants to know about the obvious space on this 1955 minor league baseball jersey.

• Love this Roger Staubach photo for two reasons. I met Staubach at a department store promotion in Dallas (where he signed a photo that looked like this) and then met center Dave Manders at our YMCA football post-season awards dinner.

• And from Martin Matthews, here’s a cool LP of NFL marching songs.

Seen something on eBay or Etsy that you think would make good Collector’s Corner fodder? Send your submissions here, and you can follow Brinke on Twitter and Facebook.

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PermaRec update: A cigar box full of old photos is the basis of the latest entry on the Permanent Record Blog. Even if you haven’t followed the PermaRec project, I think a lot of you will like this entry.

Membership reminder: The Uni Watch Membership Program will soon have a price increase, but there’s still time for you to get in at the current price. Details here.

Raffle reminder: I’m currently raffling off five copies of the newest edition of Bill Henderson’s doubleknit-era baseball jersey guide. To enter, sendi an e-mail with your name and shipping address to the giveaway address by 8pm Eastern this Thursday, July 19. One entry per reader. I’ll announce the five winners on Friday.

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Uni Watch News Ticker: The Olympix: You can’t make this shit up. If you have trouble accessing that link, try this one. If this was a movie, nobody would believe it. Just blow up the whole thing now and start over (or better yet, blow it up and don’t start over). ”¦ Speaking of which: Some of you have asked why I’m so down on the Olympix, and the answer is simple: I’m fine with the sports themselves (well, except for synchronized balloon inflation and rhythmic yoga or whatever bogus “sport” is keeping bowling from being represented this year), but the actual enterprise of the Olympix is a total boondoggle, a scam, a crock, something akin to theft, and I’d like make as many people aware of that as possible, mainly to ensure that the games never ever ever ever ever take place in my city, because that would be a disaster and an embarrassment. I’d also prefer that the games never take place in my country again, although I realize that’s too much to hope for. Maybe we can cut down on the frequency, though. ”¦ New football helmet for UNLV. An upgrade, I’d say. Further details here. … The hemline length of North Korean subway worker uniforms and other women’s apparel is supposedly providing insights into the mindset of the country’s leader, Kim Jong-un. ”¦ Lots of eccentric minor league baseball logos, most of which you’ve probably seen before, here (from Gary Chanko). ”¦ Who’s that third from the left in the front row? It’s Jon Solomonson, circa 1973. … Speaking of Little League photos, here’s a young Peyton Manning — in stirrups! (From Brady Phelps.) … A suit plastered with dozens of logos? Sure, why not (from Robbie Biederman). … The Intl. Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees, which has plenty of experience in making costumes, has offered to make the U.S. Olympic uniforms in America (from Mike Burnett). … A Gulf station in Avoca, Pennsylvania, of all places, has been given a Packers makeover. “As a lifelong Steelers fan from Pennsylvania, I pained me to take that photo,” says Art Savokinas. … NOB typo in Baltimore the other days, as Miguel Gonzalez wore “Gonzales” on his back (from Jim Satriano). … New logo for the Big Sky Conference. ” Waaaaaaaaaay too busy for a conference logo,” says Bryan Stevens. … Some nice old MacGregor baseball uniform ads here and here. … Here are the USA’s BMX uniforms for the Olympics. ” I like that they went for something kind of out there, but … no, it didn’t work,” says Walter Ford. … New football helmet for Western Carolina. “We’re returning to the purple shell with a gold fleck tint for a shiny look,” says Daniel Hooker. “The difference is that it will have a deep purple facemask and purple chinstrap.” … The Lowell Spinners wore 1912 throwbacks last night. … New umpire mask design — new to me, at least — for Tim Welke (good spot by Nick LaRosa). … Remember how those corporate douchebags at Chik-fil-a had tried to bully an artist who’d made some “Eat More Kale” T-shirts by sending him a cease-and-desist letter? Adam Walter reports that that story is now the basis for a documentary that’s in progress. Here’s hoping it gets wide distribution. Fuck Chick-fil-a. … A poster about the evolution of the basketball uniform that I recently showed here in the Ticker is now the basis of some high-quality screen prints and T-shirts. … Some pretty groovy Duke basketball illustrations here (from Ben Gorbaty). ”¦ Juan Pierre is the only MLBer who wears his cap under his batting helmet, right? Wrong! That’s Endy Chavez from last night’s O’s/Twins game. “Chavez wears number 9, but the helmet had number 13 on the back, which belongs to Xavier Avery,” says Bryan Duklewski. “Chavez recently came off the DL and Avery was recently sent to AAA, so guess they just forgot to pack Endy’s helmet for the road trip.” ”¦ “I was at a Durham Bulls game and saw this guy wearing a Nolan Ryan Corpus Christi Hooks throwback,” says David Trett. ”¦ Oh, baby, check out the sensational sweaters on the 1932 Scottish national hockey team. “Would be great for a colorization project,” says Andy McNeel. ”¦ Stephen Scheffel was on the club level at Coors Field and saw this jersey history of Colorado baseball. ”¦ RIP, Kitty. You’re with the honky tonk angels now.

Comments (233)

    I have not heard anyone say they should change the uniforms because of the scandal. I have heard that they were going to add some Paterno patch or something, but if I were them I wouldn’t.

    But for fun here is what I would do. Put a nickname on the back of the jersey that just says, we are sorry.

    Should the Nittany Lions change their uniforms specifically as a response to the Sandusky/Paterno scandal? Why or why not? Let me know what you think. Thanks.

    Yeah, like I’m gonna send an email when I can just post it as a comment… *ahem*

    I really hate to say this, because I’ve been wanting Penn State to change uniforms for years… but in light of this whole situation, I think they shouldn’t be allowed to change. Giving the team a uniform makeover makes it that much easier to shove this whole thing under the proverbial rug. Their current boring-as-hell blank uniforms will be forever linked to this scandal, and I’m not so sure that they should be able to get away from it so quickly. It really should be a dark cloud hanging over them for at least a few seasons.

    I can understand the idea of “new era, new uniforms, fresh start”, but that only works if every single person involved ends up in jail first.

    For me, it’s more important that Penn State change its fan culture than the uniforms. “We Are Penn State” needs to be banned, for example, in light of how suddenly the entire Penn State community seems to have decided that it would be unfair to punish them for the wrongdoing of the entire football program by canceling a season or two. If you won’t take responsibility for the evil done by the program for your benefit, then no, you are not in fact Penn State. “Success with Honor” also needs to be scrubbed from the record, given that we now know that from the janitors to the head coach to the university president, the program was characterized by possibly the most systematically dishonorable behavior in the history of American sports.

    Keep the unis as they are. No memorial for JoePa, who doesn’t deserve it, but also no look-at-us memorial for the scandal either. It would just feel cheap and tawdry, and if we accept the logic that canceling the season would unfairly punish the poor innocent players, then it would be just as unfair to force said players to wear uniforms that implicitly brand them with culpability for the child rape and associated evil done by their program. But change the culture – end the idolatry of football that so dreadfully perverted the moral standards of all involved.

    If your kid were a blue chip high school star, and a Penn State recruiter showed up at your door, what would you do?

    We went to the UH-Penn State Ticket City Bowl game in January, long before most of the really ugly stuff came out, and the feeling that you were watching a program in its death throes was palpable. Lots of people in the stands, lots of cheering, an insanely huge marching band, but it all felt empty.

    There was a time when CCNY was a basketball powerhouse. Then there was a massive scandal, and the program never recovered. Is Penn State going to have a tougher and tougher time attracting top recruits, and quality coaches, and eventually, boosters and fans? Will it simply dry up, like CCNY did in the Fifties?

    That’s an interesting take. I was prepared to say, “No, you were all about tradition, and look where tradition got you: Dozens (hundreds?) of young lives in ruins, a whole town’s way of life hooked on your college football heroin, a whole university made to be Joe Paterno’s bitch. Fuck your tradition, start over.” But the concept of the Penn State brand as a scarlet letter has merit.
    But no, using other’s misfortune as my ruse to redesign the Nittany Lions’ iconography would show a lack of respect to Jerry Sandusky’s victims. My heart wouldn’t be in it. I’m torn. Maybe block “PCA” lettering on the sides of the helmets for “Prevent Child Abuse”?

    “I can understand the idea of “new era, new uniforms, fresh start”, but that only works if every single person involved ends up in jail first.”

    This. Also, as much as I’d like to see a little change to PSU’s uniforms (helmet numbers, pants stripes, maybe blue pants), I don’t see a necessity for changing their uniforms in wake of the scandal. It’s not like PSU changing their uniforms is going to make everything better.

    Totally unrealistic, but how about we forbid them from selling tickets to home games this year? And no band, no piped in music, either. Nuthin’.

    Let it be that every time they’re on TV from “Happy Valley”–or every highlight we see–the stadium is empty and silent.

    That sure as hell would remind people of what happened there.

    (and they wouldn’t drop off anyone’s schedule).

    Not entirely unrealistic. UEFA has handed out “closed doors” punishments during the Champions League, but it’s usually related to fan behavior/racist chanting.

    AS Roma got hit with it in 2004 and had to play a home match against Real Madrid without fans. An empty 70,000 seat stadium, the only noise you had was coaches yelling and ballboy chatter. It was a bizarre game to watch.

    It’s a delight to see such level-headed responses here on uniwatch. Many of these suggestions are great and I hope at least a few come to fruition in some way.

    Check out the absurd reactions many students had when they learned that Paternoville, the student camp out group for football games, would be changed to “Nittnayville.” These students really need to take a step back and look at the big picture. If this name change of a mere student organization spurred such an outcry, imagine what some of these suggestions would evoke.


    (Sorry, I haven’t been posting long and I’m unsure of how to insert a link)

    Having PSU change their uniforms is akin to “putting lipstick on a pig.” The most important thing the university can do is respond with directness, honesty and contrition. Stop the legal “spin” … after all, lawyers get paid to work in the court of law, NOT the court of public opinion. Step back. Think. Move forward.

    Meh, the Olympics have run their course. Nuking them and starting over would be a good thing. Here’s an idea – pick random people to participate. Let the “average” person in each country compete instead of the absolute best. There’s somewhere around 200 countries involved, yet only a small fraction of them actually win (or even have a chance at winning) Olympic medals. Let’s level the playing field.

    In spirit, I like the idea The Jeff. But how many couch potatoes are pulling a hamstring in their first dash down the track? Hopefully the kayak/canoe “athletes” are strong swimmers.

    I don’t want to watch me run against the me of Kenya, I want to watch the best competing at the highest level, that’s why you watch sports.

    If you’re worried 1st world athletes have advatages, give them all the same steroids and doctor supervision and then have them compete. I don’t care if there are or aren’t steroids so long as everyone is going with the same steriod policy.

    SEE: Tour De France

    Love to eat at Chik-fil-A. Best chicken sandwiches anywhere. The only people who seem to get their panties in a bunch about Chik-fil-A are those who have a problem with a restaurant chain being owned by a man of faith.

    Right. Because I never have anything bad to say about corporate bullying by other companies. Only when Chik-fil-a does it. So it’s obviously just faith-bashing on my part. Got it.

    Please come up with a better argument. And fuck Chik-fil-a.

    I don’t think scott or anyone is accusing you of anything here, Paul.

    I agree, the only time I ever have beef (haha) with Chik-fil-a is when I want some and it’s Sunday.

    A lot of people seem to dislike Chik-fil-A and Tim Tebow for the same reason, that they are so visible with their faith. It’s remarkable how few Chik-fil-A restaurants there are in blue states, and it’s not because their food isn’t great. I don’t see any reason to drop f-bombs on them because they are trying to defend a trademark.

    It’s a shame you choose to see the nation in terms of red states and blues states, instead of simply the United States.

    But if you insist, here’s a comparison: Almost no Waffle Houses in blue states either. Or Krystals. Or any number of other regional chains. Is that a religious/political thing? Or is it just a regional thing? Not everything is religiously or politically loaded, and plenty of people hate Chik-fil-a simply because we dislike fast-food chains in general and think the whole notion of a football game called the Chik-fil-a Bowl is embarrassing.

    Meanwhile: If you honestly think bullying some artist who makes “Eat More Kale” T-shirts is defensible and honorable corporate behavior, that’s your prerogative. But back here in the real world, it’s despicable, and deserves to be called out as such. Fuck Chik-fil-a.

    Love Chik-Fil-A’s food when I’m on a roadtrip, hate the corporate D-Baggery. Simple as that. But I REALLY hate the fact that it’s the Chik-Fil-A bowl now. Can we get some “I’m still calling it the Peach Bowl” shirts anyone?

    FYI, Krystal has been around since the 1930s and is a regional fast-food chain based in the Southeast. Krystal is hemmed in by White Castle to the North, East, and West, so the brand has stayed home for the most part.

    I don’t like corporate bullying either, but when you write like that you hurt your argument.

    Profanity is a perfectly legitimate tool in the writer’s toolkit. I use it primarily as a form of mockery and outrage, to strip the veneer of respectability from something (in this case, Chik-fil-a) that deserves no respect. I know some people don’t care for it, and that’s fine. Different strokes and all that.

    A classic way to derail the debate, Geeman.

    Derailing for Dummies: “You Are Damaging Your Cause By Being Angry” link

    A cease and desist letter is just a letter. It serves the purpose of “defending” their trademark. That’s about it. Whether CFA needed to “defend” the mark in this case isn’t necessarily the slam dunk that it seems to us (non judges and lawyers who think that words mean what they say). They may have been simply hedging their bets against whatever a court might interpret as mark infringements.

    How did they even hear about this guy? Maybe they have people who search for things like this, and then their lawyers (who have to do SOMETHING to earn their keep) sent out the form c&d letter. IDK. IDC.

    If they go any further with this, then I’d jump on the bandwagon and yell out FCFA! But in the meantime, I’m sure dude has sold a lot more tee shirts since the letter than he did before it. So, is he really that pissed off???

    The fact that you’re viewing this as something that can be measured on a scorecard of T-shirt sales means you’re seeing the whole thing in terms of business, the market, capitalism, etc., which plays into Chik-fil-a’s mindset.

    But that mindset is not the right lens through which to view this situation.

    The guy is an artist. His shirt is social commentary. The letter, even if it’s an empty threat, is an attempt to bully him into silence. Even if he sells more shirts due to the publicity, that’s not a “victory” or a “success,” because it distracts from the larger point that mega-corporations should not be bullying harmless individuals with legal threats.

    Maybe the guy can mount a legal defense and win. But who wants to mount a legal defense against a mega-corporation with an army of lawyers? Who wants to turn their life upside-down to “win” like that? This isn’t about T-shirt sales; it’s about the strong bullying the weak because they can. That’s why it’s so offensive. Fuck Chik-fil-a.

    Yes, he’s an artist. Yes, it’s commentary. But he didn’t put up a display in his living room and show it only to his family and closest friends. He’s in business to make a profit, I’m sure. So of course, I and CFA and you and everybody else should look at this in terms of “a business, the market, capitalism, etc.” CFA may or may not care about this guy or his shirts. They moved on this because that’s what they are required to do–at least in their interpretation of trademark law. As it stands, he doesn’t even need to mount any kind of legal defense. He needs to do EXACTLY what he’s doing: calling attention to what the evil mega-corporation did to him. It’s good business on his part.

    he didn’t put up a display in his living room and show it only to his family and closest friends. He’s in business to make a profit, I’m sure.

    Yeah, you’re sure. Because, I’m guessing (although I’m not sure), the only way you know how to view any productive enterprise is via a financial scorecard.

    But creative enterprises often have nothing to do with making money. They have to do with creative expression. You think all those “starving artists” out there are painting, sculpting, music-ing, etc. because they think it’s the best way to make a buck? Fuck, do you think I did the Candela Structures project, or the Show-and-Tell project, or any number of other creative projects, to make a buck? (If so, I need a new business advisor, because those enterprises have been in the red.)

    I know this can be hard to wrap your head around if you’re not a creative sort of person, but sometimes people do things just because they want to do them. The fact that you view it all as “good business” or “bad business” (or just “business,” period) is really sad, and shows a fundamental misunderstanding of how creative people work.

    C’mon, man. You know full well that once a person makes a decision to put a price tag on anything, then that person has put up the “financial scorecard.” I actually do understand how creative people work. I understand the need to express oneself, feelings, attitudes, desires, and condition (among all the other things that people put to paper, to song, to movement).
    This isn’t that.
    Candela, Show-and-Tell, Glitch’s dance moves, Mau Mau’s graffiti, every teenage girl writing poetry in her journal. No one should ever EVER tell a creative person that they should not express themselves. I could never come up with the words to argue on behalf of that. However, in this case, the man is selling words on shirts. Three words. And their only significance is what they say (or don’t say) about CFA’s similar slogan. Defend the words since you seem very intent on doing that. I have not and will not attack the words. But keep in mind, please, that the only reason we even heard about this story is because one business “bullied” a smaller business.

    You know full well that once a person makes a decision to put a price tag on anything, then that person has put up the “financial scorecard.”

    I see. So every crazy piece of abstract art hanging on a gallery wall is simply a function of capitalism, of the market, the end.

    No. It doesn’t work that way, and you know it.

    the only reason we even heard about this story is because one business “bullied” a smaller business.

    That is false. The reason we know about it is that one business bullied an artist. Go look up all the articles that were written when this story first broke and see for yourself.

    OMG! So your argument is that art simply cannot be business? Just because the piece is abstract it’s not viable as a potential source of income??? C’mon! Now you’re insulting obscure artists.

    Look, the guy even introduces himself as a “microbusiness” in the clip you linked to. You don’t have to be big or successful to be a business. You don’t have to lose the art just because you’ve added the market.

    Is Beyonce no longer an artist? Are her songs not also business?

    OMG! So your argument is that art simply cannot be business?

    No no no. Not what I’m saying at all (and if I gave that impression, I’m sorry). Many, many creative enterprises are businesses.

    My argument is that not every artistic endeavor is inherently a business, and that a business-scorecard mindset is therefore not necesssarily the proper context in which to view every single creative endeavor. Including the one at hand in this discussion.

    Moreover, simply because a creative endeavor is monetized, that doesn’t mean it’s being run like a business. Case in point: I put ads on this site, just so I can get a little scratch back in return for all the time and energy I put into it. But I do *not* run this site like a business. If I did, you’d see tons of video ads, pop-up ads, and other things that I’m solicited for (and turn down) literally every single day. You’d also see lots more naked gurlz. But I’m not interested in running this site like a business; I’m interested in running it in a way that I find satisfying.

    I do run certain parts of my career like a business. One reason I do that is so I can run other parts — like this part — according to my creative whims.

    I wish the d&c letter was available for viewing because I wonder whether it says, essentially, “Stop saying that” or “Stop selling that.” The former lends itself to the view that the evil CFA bullied the artist while the latter affirms that the mega-corp was trying to step on another business…

    But sometimes the mere act of putting something up for sale is a creative statement — a way of making fun of capitalism, or making fun of retailing, or being ironic, or saying, “Hey, look, I can do it too, ha-ha!”

    I’m not saying that was necessarily the case here; I’m just saying that the lines are a lot blurrier than you’re making them out to be.

    Paul, surely you can appreciate that an offbeat hippie-type, essentially selling t-shirts out of the back of his microbus, poses an ENORMOUS threat to the stability of the Chick-Fil-A corporation, which has precisely one restaurant in the state where Mr. Eat More Kale lives. Corporations are people, after all, and Chick-Fil-A is a corporation with feelings, feelings that have been hurt by the thought that someone out there is endorsing consumption of something green that God made, instead of one of their ridiculously overpriced, hyper salty, spongy-bunned little cholesterol bombs.

    I’m a Christian. I LOVE that Chick Fil-A is closed on Sunday — it gives all the kids and poor people who work for them a day of rest. I’m not crazy about some of their political stances, but I HATE that they use their Christianity as a marketing tool. It’s cynical, and manipulative, and Pharisaic.

    I really should read all the posts before I post anything myself. Sorry for repeating stuff the rest of you said much better, much earlier in the day.

    According to his own site, he didn’t even come up with thee idea for the slogan or putting it on shirts:

    “A couple of friends of mine, Paul and Kate of High-Ledge Farm, penned the phrase over ten years ago when they special ordered two shirts for themselves. I must admit, I gave the design very little thought. I drew the letters and cut the stencil in less than 20 minutes. I printed their shirts and delivered them at the next farmer’s market. The idea became “viral” before people knew what “viral” was, then quickly spread to all corners of the world. Now, as a one man show, it’s everything I can do to keep up with the demand.”

    Using someone’s idea is not art, regardless of if they are given permission to do so. Had he come up with the slogan himself that argument could be made but basically he has turned a personal request for a t-shirt and decided to sell it to the masses. The concept is not purely profit driven, he is trying to raise awareness about eating healthier, but that doesn’t mean it is art.

    Chick-fil-a has an obligation to protect their trademark, or risk losing it. The fact that these shirts have made their way to countries across the globe could distort where the phrase comes from. The people in Australia may have no idea of the Eat More Chicken slogan, and could believe it post-dates the Kale version. People could mistake the shirts as a new campaign CFA is running promoting eating Kale.

    As bad as it sounds: Don’t hate the player, hate the game.

    As for the “Chick-Fil-a” Bowl, we still call it the Peachbowl in GA, however the Chick-Fil-a Kick-Off Classic would not exist without Chick-Fil-a’s sponsorship (keep that in mind when you bash it leading up to the opening weekend of College Football.

    Chick-fil-a has an obligation to protect their trademark, or risk losing it.

    Powerful if proven; irrelevant when asserted. See about six other comments in this thread, including some from people with greater legal acumen than either you or I, that refute their “obligation” to bully the T-shirt guy as a form of “trademark defense.”

    the Chick-Fil-a Kick-Off Classic would not exist without Chick-Fil-a’s sponsorship (keep that in mind when you bash it leading up to the opening weekend of College Football.

    They have you brainwashed pretty good, eh? Anyway, like I really give a shit about some made-up “Classic” game that has no more bearing on the season than any other game. The whole thing is a vehicle to promote a brand — it has very little to do with football. Fuck Chick-fil-a.

    I don’t understand how acknowledging that a game that did not exist in prior to 2008, and has always been sponsored by the same company, who also pushed for its existence is considered being brain washed.

    The Peachbowl existed prior to it receiving any sponsorship, and was wrongfully renamed. The Chick-fil-A Kick-off classic was started by and has always been sponsored by CFA.

    I get your argument for the bowls whose names take a backseat to their sponsorship (I wish I didn’t associate the Sugar Bowl with Nokia, not that I say Nokia every time I mention it but I do always think about the company, And I’m forever grateful the Rose Bowl didn’t have any kind of long-term sponsor). But Chick-fil-A pushed for the creation of the College Kick-Off, and Atlanta has benefited greatly from having essentially 2 Bowl games every year. And this year there will be 2 games played that opening weekend. Meaning Metro-Atlanta businesses benefit from the influx of 6 different fan-bases 4 at the start of the season and 2 at the end. I know it doesn’t align with your views that they are somehow evil, but Chick-fil-A does a lot of good for the community, and they are motivated by things other than money (If money was the end-all be-all with them they would be open on Sundays).

    I just don’t understand why these big companies don’t realize that these slogans and advertising from small businesses that are similar to the theirs actually help promote their product as well. If I saw a guy wearing the “Eat More Kale” shirt, I would think of Chic-Fil-a. One might say, “well that’s the problem, they are stealing their slogan”. No, a guy making shirts and selling them out of his van isn’t taking any money out away from Chic-fil-a. Big companies would be smart to work work with these small businesses. In this instance they could give the guy some exposure and in return have a little seal of approval graphic that reads “Approved by the cows at Chic-fil-a.” It would be great PR and it’s also good to, you know, help small business and the economy. It comes down to greed.

    Because there are no Chik-fil-a’s in Vermont. There’s maybe two or three in all of New England. So what benefit would it give the company, exactly?

    it doesn’t matter what danger he might be to Chic-fil-A, he is still stealing. Why should he get a pass when he is “borrowing” a trademarked phrase? Now he is going to try to exploit it more with a documentary? He’s just riding his 15 minutes at this point.

    The whole point of trademark law is not to prevent “stealing”; it’s to prevent confusion and misunderstandings in the mind of the consumer. And there’s no way this guy’s T-shirts are doing that.

    It’s social commentary rooted in mockery, which is a tradition that goes back, oh, a millenium or two. Fuck Chik-fil-a.

    I look at it from a PR viewpoint. Going after a guy who sells 2 of these shirts a month might not make Chic-fil-a look that great. Is it worth it? What are they accomplishing besides looking like a bully? It probably will end up costing them more money then it would have if they just let it go.

    Just saying, if I was a head exec at Chic-fil-a and my legal team came to me with this, my response would be,
    Lawyer: “Sir, there is a disturbing development in Vermont”

    Me: “Did they run out of maple syrup?”

    Lawyer: “No sir, out slogan is being used by another enterprise. Here, see for yourself”

    Me: “Ha! That’s cute. Some hippie wants people to eat Kale and put a slogan on shirt that is similar to ours. But we have cows and stuff in the ads and it’s a whole campaign. This guy lives in a van down by the river.”

    Lawyer: “Sir, he is stealing our slogan. He needs to be stopped.”

    Me: “Cool it down. It may look bad that a multi-billion dollar company is spending time going after some small-time guy that makes shirts out of his garage. Trust me, Kale isn’t going to be cutting into our market share anytime soon.

    Lawyer: “Are you sure, we can get him if we wanted.”

    Me: “No, it would be PR mess. He poses no danger to us. Let’s move on. So how many millions did we make today?”

    What you’re basically saying is, “Even if you’re in the right [which isn’t necessarily clear in this case, but let’s say it is, for the sake of argument], is it worth being perceived as an asshole?”

    That’s a strong argument. But here’s an even stronger one: “Even if you’re in the right, is it worth BEING an asshole?”

    In other words, this isn’t just a PR debacle rooted in public perception of despicable behavior (which would be bad enough); it’s genuinely despicable behavior, period. Sometimes perceptions match reality.

    I think “debacle” is a little strong. I am willing to bet 4 out of 5 people don’t give a shit about this whole thing. I know about it, and I don’t really care. My issue is that you didn’t explain your “Fuck Chick-fil-A” in the write-up and it can easily be perceived that you have something against their religious stance.

    My issue is that you didn’t explain your “Fuck Chick-fil-A” in the write-up and it can easily be perceived that you have something against their religious stance.

    For anyone who knows anything about my feelings regarding (a) corporate bullying, (b) overzealous branding, and (c) the Chicken Sandwich Bowl — all of which have been expressed many, many times on this site — I think the explanation for my feelings regarding Chik-fil-a in this instance is pretty obvious.

    Here’s what’s way less obvious: You making a leap to judgment about religion. What’s that about?

    I agree, debacle is pretty strong. 4 out of 5 people don’t care? Try like 95 out of 100. We just happen to be the 5%ers who know about this story, and most likely because of this site.

    Which then lends some discredibility to Chick-fil-A’s stance. One little guy in a state where you don’t sell anything anyhow? Hey, I know about the trademark infringement and all (how long before “Eat Mor Bail Bonds” is allowed) but going full steam after this guy is a waste of money if the trademark isn’t legally being infringed upon.

    “Supersize me” made $30M at the box office so using some generous numbers means probably 5% of the US public might have seen this movie altogether. So this is not going to be the debacle the anti-chikin folks are hoping for. It’s not like the anti-commercialism folks like Paul eat there to begin with.

    why is that less obvious? There are generally two things you think of when you hear “Chik-fil-A” if you know anything about them, and one of them is that they aren’t open on Sundays due to religious beliefs. I don’t think I made any kinds of leaps knowing your background and what you have discussed here in the past. I’m glad to hear that you don’t hate them for that reason though.

    I fully support their right to be open (or closed) whenever they like. And I support any business owner’s right to be closed on the sabbath of his/her particular faith. None of that has the slightest bearing on the corporate bullying they’re engaging in here, or my longstanding opposition to same.

    I think *you* view CFA in a religious context much more than I do.

    I don’t think so, it makes them stand out from other fast food restaurants. I may have put too much into what your religious context may have been on the issue, but I don’t think I made a terrible assumption.

    How the heck does “Eat more ______” become a defensible trademark anyway?

    Hey everyone, EAT MORE BACON!

    /please don’t sue me, Chik-fil-A

    The only thing I could see being defensible is the deliberate misspelling of “chicken”.

    Also the spelling of “more.” Plus the font, which is designed to look like handwriting (assuming cows could write, and the cows actually had…you know…hands).

    When I first moved to the sowf, I ate at chikfila. It wasn’t bad. It was fast food. So, eh.

    After finding out that the owner thinks people like me are going to hell for what we believe … fuck ’em. Not getting another dime of my money.

    Has the owner actually said that she “thinks people like me are going to hell for what we believe” or are you just generalizing anyone with religious beliefs?

    the point is, they never said anything like that, you are just putting them into a general category because you seem to have something against religion. They aren’t pushing anything on you and they aren’t condemning you. Your money is still good to them. The fact that they are closed on Sunday should be respectable, but instead consumers find a way to bash them for it.

    “The fact that they are closed on Sunday should be respectable, but instead consumers find a way to bash them for it.”


    why should that be respectable?

    Why should that be respectable? Because we love old fashioned things here, remember?!?!

    but seriously, why wouldn’t it be? You have a big corporation that doesn’t let greed get in the way of the beliefs they were raised on. Doesn’t that go against all big corporation douchebaggery?

    After thinking about my comment, I found it to be harsh and stupid. Of course Mr. Truett Cathy doesn’t go around condemning individuals to hell. Even if he did, it would be harmless and a little crazy. However, if you’re an employee and don’t participate in their group prayers … you can be fired. That’s fine, it’s a personal choice to work there or eat there. I choose not to do both.

    As for your opinion that I seem to have something against religion, Todd.

    A religion that was born out of the division over slavery. Didn’t renounce or apologize for it’s defense of slavery, segregation and white supremacism until 1995. A religion that continues to condemn homosexuality, judges the traditions and rituals of other christian faiths as idol worship and discounts the baptism of infants as false. Lobbies to blur the line between church and state. Restricts the participation of women in the pastorate. That’s Truett’s religion.

    Sure. I have something against it and I’m not going to give money, that could end up in a collection plate of a SBC affiliate … if I have the choice. (Now, if I’m flying down the I-75, starving and the only places to eat are a Krystal, Waffle House or Chik-fil-A. I’m buying a 3 count mini, and dipping it in honey.)

    And there’s equally as many people who go there for their/his religious beliefs. Hate to say it but I’ve been in a local Chick-Fil-A a few times during lunch and it’s hard to find a place to sit, it is that packed.

    Secondly, I don’t give a rats arse what the owner thinks, what they support or what bowl they sponser. If they make decent food I’ll eat it. Just shut up and cook.

    I would buy “Eat More White Meat (So There’s More Dark Meat for Me!)”

    Actually, I may have to design that one myself. Don’t sue me, Chik-fil-a!!

    What if it were a scatological message? Couldn’t Hippie Dude then defend it as parody, and isn’t parody protected speech? So why doesn’t “Ear More Kale” count the same way?

    He’s not using their wordmark — I bought one of these shirts for my wife, who ironically enough loves both kale and Chick-Fil-A, and the phrase “Eat More Kale” looks nothing at all like “Eat Mor Chikin” — he’s not planning on opening a national chain of kale restaurants, so why can’t he just argue that he’s parodying America’s obsession with fast food?

    The creepiest t-shirt in the world has been worn by Baptist teenagers for years. It features the image of a torn hand, crudely nailed to a cross, with the words “THIS BLOOD’S FOR YOU” in block letters beneath it. To date, Budweiser has not threatened legal action.

    There’s nothing quite like a Chik-Fil-A sandwich on a Sunday morning when you’re hungover from the night before. Oh wait…..

    They need to have Jewish Chick-Fil-As that’ll be closed on Saturday, but open on Sunday.

    Fifteen comments mentioning the name of the restaurant and not one of them is correct.


    Even if we don’t like something, we should still bother to use the correct terms and spellings, especially on a blog where attention to detail is king.

    That wasn’t unintentional. We just don’t want to get sued by “that company”.

    It’s nothing special. It’s just fried chicken, and bland at that. You might as well soak your own chicken cuts in buttermilk, batter it & deep fry it in peanut oil – and with about 80% less sodium, too.

    KFC was good when they weren’t skimping on the Original Recipe herbs & spices. Unfortunately it’s been over 20 years since I’ve had a really good batch. Personally I prefer Popeye’s if I must.

    I think Popeye’s is probably the best in the business these days, as far as fast food places go. Definitely underrated.

    Their brand is definitely more interesting than typical fast food. I won’t even touch McDeath (just awful on so many levels) & fast food seems to be getting worse in quality in general.

    I guess I should have qualified that I meant for chicken. Fast food as a whole is such a larger game, it’s hard to judge who is “best”. It usually comes down to regional preferences, and even the quality of a chain’s restaurants in your area.

    But yeah… Popeye’s is solid. Love me some dirty rice.

    Even tho I’m not Southern at all, I love me some biscuits dipped in cajun gravy and Country Fried Steak from Popeye’s as well as their battered cajun fries whom my favorite fast food fries. Tho gravy makes everything better. As the lovely ATK chef Bridget Lancaster once said, “gravy is the nectar of the gods”.

    I know I like to play ‘food critic’ on here & not to sound conceited or biased, I have tried CFA (had it last week in NE IL, incidentally) but the chicken itself is nothing remarkable. It’s no better or worse than the generic supermarket fried chicken (Jewel-Osco, if you can believe it) or even Wendy’s premium fried chicken sandwiches. JMHO.

    It’s crap. And overpriced. But people line up for it. And here in the South, you better believe that a significant number of people are loyal to the brand for the same reason they buy their craft goods at Hobby Lobby: it’s run by good Christians.

    The lemonade is actually pretty tasty.

    So the company is saying it isn’t public enough or well-known enough to fall under “fair comment and criticism” or be subject to legitimate parody?

    “We’re so small these kale teeshirts can hurt us.”

    Helluva thing to admit.

    The truth, of course, is that huge companies bulldoze small companies all the time. The legal department earns its keep by firing off cease & desist letters to people they know don’t have deep enough pockets to fight back, even if what they’re doing is completely legal.

    What I find funny of the whole thing is, most restaurants use kale as more-or-less for decoration and is not meant to be edible. When I worked for a steakhouse that I won’t mention the name of (I didn’t leave on good terms, but I’d rather keep the name anonymous anyways.), we used kale as a decorative tool on the plates of food we sold. We didn’t use veggie wash or even just plain water to wash the kale off: we used liquid hand soap. And it wasn’t just that particular location: it was part of the operational procedures on how we were supposed to do it.

    As far as Chick-Fil-A goes, it personally isn’t my cup of tea, but not because of religious-based reason. (That would actually be why I would LIKE them.) There’s just better options out there. They must be doing something right, because despite having nearly a third of the number of locations as KFC and being only open six days a week, link to topping KFC in sales last year. They’re only 200 stores from catching Popeyes Chicken and only 100 from Church’s Chicken, and they already greatly exceed those two stores in sales COMBINED. I’ll eat Chick-Fil-A if I have to and I do occasionally have to have my Popeyes fix, but nothing beats the Colonel. As for Church’s, I’ve never had them, but the nearest one is in Cleveland, so I might have to try them the next time I’m up that way. Never had Bojangles, either. (Nearest one of those is in the D.C. area.) I’ve had Chester’s Chicken, though, which is decent. Almost forgot about them since they’re mostly in gas stations.

    I would like to try Krystal Burgers, though. I had White Castle recently in Cleveland for the first time (coincidentally at a location co-branded with Church’s, but I didn’t get anything off the Church’s menu), tasted better than link, but still not my cup of tea, unlike link. And I’ve met link.

    Other places I’d like to try include Jack in the Box, In-and-Out Burger, and Carl’s Jr, since their menu does have some differences with Hardee’s, which I’ve had countless times. I tried Huddle House a couple weeks back, they’re OK. I live 20 minutes from a Waffle House, I do have to get my occasional fix for them. And I LOVE Steak ‘n Shake!

    I used to live in NY and nothing was better at 2am than White Castle. I now live in FL and Krystal just doesn’t compare to WC for the reason they don’t put ketchup on theirs, they put mustard on them. Totally different thing. Sure you can ask for ketchup but eh, in 12 years I’ve only had Krystal a hand full of times, nothing to go out of your way for.

    Pittsburgh is an abnormality when it comes to QSR restaurants. We have your typical national chains–and while Wendy’s, Arby’s, and Subway have a sizable presence here, there will always be a love for McDumpster’s over here because of a link–and we have the local favorite, Eat ‘n Park. Not too much in regional chains. Hardee’s and Waffle House have a couple scattered locations (and I consider those more-or-less quasi-national chains than true regional chains), as does the ever-growing Sonic Drive-In. (In Sonic’s case, they have enough locations in Pittsburgh to be an official sponsor of the Pittsburgh Penguins, even though they only have like SIX location in the Pittsburgh area.) The only true regional QSR chains in Pittsburgh with a sizable presence are Steak ‘n Shake and Sheetz. The former is link, while the latter–which EVERYONE in Pittsburgh eats at–is really a gas station.

    Isn’t it funny how you can find McDeath’s fries from the 1980s in an old car & yet they still look like they came straight from the frier?

    Someone actually did an experiment with a Happy Meal a few years back, and came back link I was more or less of a Burger King Kids Club kid growing up anyways. I still like BK today, though I am disappointed that I can’t get a Whopper during breakfast hours anymore.

    Happy Meal: that’s a clown meal, bro :P

    I predate Happy Meals or I just don’t remember them, but it was another reason why I didn’t like being a kid – I wanted the adult sandwich & that’s what I got. Screw that tiny burger & crummy toy shit.

    Had 2 double cheeseburgers from BK recently, and you know what I saw? The patties were flower shaped! They got a dye cut for their little 3″ patties so they could “cut corners” on a round pattie. All 4 patties had the exact same shape. Absolutely ridiculous. BK is a joke.

    I was eating adult meals by the time I was eight. And except at Wendy’s, where it’s kind-of hard to ignore their square burgers, I don’t really pay attention to what shape the burger patties are. I pay more attention to whether or not they’re cooked thoroughly or not, since that tends to be more important than what a burger looks like.

    What I find funny of the whole thing is, most restaurants use kale as more-or-less for decoration and is not meant to be edible.

    I recently saw a “Restaurant Humor” video clip in which a guy who works at a resturant near me said, “What’s the different between parsley and pussy? People eat pussy.”

    Quite good grilled, too. (And I’m not saying that just because I like everything grilled. I had a grilled kale salad a few yrs back and was really impressed by it.)

    It has less to do with the fact that he is a “man of faith” and more to do with the fact that the company will justify doing horrible things by his faith. They have fired employees because they aren’t Christian. They fired one man because he helped an employee out who came out of the closet and was kicked out of his home by his family. They suposedly ask in interviews about your sexlife and religion.

    Those are very valid reasons to be Anti-fil-A.

    Alex, it comes down to eventually diverging from the founders philosophy, and it’ll probably get worse when S. Truett Cathy dies. (He is 91, so it appears that Chick-Fil-A is already doing that.) Look no further than The Walt Disney Company and Walmart after Walt Disney and Sam Walton died. Those companies would probably put their respective founders to shame, because the ensuing leaders wanted to do “what Walt would do” or “what Sam would do”, when in reality those men would probably oppose of it. That’s part of the reason why I recently made the switch from the iPhone (after four years) to an Android-based phone, because I see Apple doing the same thing with Steve Jobs gone. As a Beatles fan, I’m also boycotting the upcoming Yellow Submarine remake that DISNEY is making, since John Lennon would’ve vetoed that in a heartbeat if he was alive today. Wouldn’t of been the first time Lennon vetoed a Disney-Beatles connection–and the other one he did was when Walt WAS alive.

    Wasn’t Dave Thomas a fairly religious man? Yet, Wendy’s isn’t guilty of the same criticized behavior as Chick-Fil-A. Oh, and Wendy’s offers some fish during Lent for us Catholics (Chick-Fil-A just makes sure that there’s two days I won’t eat there).

    Subway even has Kosher and Halal locations in Jewish and Muslim communities, respectively, here in the U.S.

    I remember when Church’s Chicken got sold a few years back to a Muslim consortium and they removed all pork items off the menu because it wasn’t Halal. They’ve since been sold off again, but I’m not sure if pork products have been reintroduced.

    I have a problem with people eating at that restaurant because the owners give entirely too much money to anti-gay causes and politicians looking to defend DOMA, etc.

    Nothing better than so-called “Christians” acting very un-Christ-like.

    I have never and will never step foot in, let alone spend any money in, any restaurant owned by that family.

    Jen, you sound like my openly gay brother (who is more of a Christian than a lot of people who claim to be Christians). He won’t shop at Target for the same reasons. I had to tell him when that whole controversy started that most major companies tend to donate to right-wing policies, or at the very least will donate to both sides “to please everybody”. (Starbucks is a notable exception.) It’s not really going to matter where you shop at or where you eat at. Chances are, they support a cause that you don’t agree with. If you won’t go somewhere because they support a certain cause, well, it’s a lose-lose situation.

    It’s not really going to matter where you shop at or where you eat at.

    This is like telling someone it doesn’t matter who they vote for. After all, no politician is 100% perfect, and no single person’s vote amounts to much.

    Except that’s total bullshit. Choosing how to spend (or not spend) one’s money is a perfectly legitimate way of expressing one’s civic agency and engaging in one’s community, just like voting is. The fact that it’s not a 100%-perfect mechanism doesn’t make it a “lose-lose.”

    And you have a point there, too, Paul. It was like a couple of weeks ago when President Obama was driving through our backyard and stopped at a local bakery. A lot of people on Facebook threw a fit about it and said that they would never give a LOCALLY-OWNED-AND-OPERATED bakery their business again just because the leader of the free world stopped there. I compared that to a number of Steeler fans I know that won’t root for the team because of Ben Roethlisberger, which, while a more legitimate reason not to root for the team, is basically the same thing. Everyone is human, and as far as politics is concerned, the Democrats and Republicans are one in the same. If people want to see REAL political difference, they need to go to Italy and see how many different governments they’ve had since Benito Mussolini was in charge. Italy’s political system is TOO fragmented, whereas here it probably needs to be a little more fragmented than what it really is.

    No, seriously, fuck these assholes.

    As a dad with kids, I really, really like Chick-fil-a. The meals are better than average, the toys you get with the meals are good…often books, or little put-together-yourself science things. They almost always have indoor playgrounds, ideal (especially on 100+ degree summer days) for letting the kids blow off a little steam after lunch, wear ’em out a bit to give tired parents a little break. They’re super-polite, and bend over backwards to give you good service. I was there three times in the last two weeks alone.

    But I am done with them. You can’t actively discriminate against an entire subset of my friends and neighbors and get away with it. I often joke that I’d join the KKK if it’d get my kids to eat their goddamn lunch, but it just ain’t funny anymore. Fuck these pricks to the end of the earth.

    I just want to say that I think it’s somewhat shameful that there is a debate this heated regarding a corporation that sells us pieces of fried meat. Don’t get me wrong, the fact that those debating are able to put together arguments and stand their ground in the face of an adversary is worthy of applause, but we’re honestly putting those efforts toward this company? Personally, I enjoy Chick-fil-A, and truly miss their food as I now live in an area that has none within reasonable driving distance. While I happen to disagree with their stance on the t-shirt issue, and the way they may be handling it, it’s not a big enough problem or offensive enough gesture for me to turn down the opportunity to purchase a spicy chicken sandwich with waffle fries and a sweet tea the next time said chance arrives. I think there are times that as a society we take ourselves far too seriously, and focus our energy on arguments that don’t really matter simply to say we won. I don’t want to say that one side or the other in this case is correct, in fact I agree with Paul that there are certainly shades of gray here, but I do feel I need to express my concern for how passionately we debate a chicken company when that energy could be focused elsewhere in society. Of course with that said, I paid enough attention to the thread to form an opinion, so I myself am a perfect example of how we can get carried away by honestly useless debates.

    But we’re not debating a chicken sandwich company (or at least I’m not). We’re debating the latest example of corporate bullshit by a company that thinks its intellectual property rights give it carte blanch to run roughshod over small, relatively powerless people who pose no threat to said rights. This is an ongoing trend, and one that needs to stop.

    That’s what I’m debating, anyway. Can’t speak for everyone else.

    I just don’t understand why a site supposedly dedicated to the research and love of sports uniforms and their history has to be the place where we debate very controversial political and religious ideals. Don’t get me wrong, this is your blog and as such you can write whatever you want on here, that’s the great thing about our constitutional rights. I just feel it’s difficult to read the blog sometimes when many of the people on here are so openly bashing both Christian and conservative values. Call me a bigot, or worse, if you’d like, but I see nothing wrong with having my own values which happen to be different. Values, by the way, which tend to make me lean towards supporting and forgiving this company due to its Christian values. Also, this is capitalism at its finest, in which Chick-fil-A is the best because it made itself that way, and until someone else figures out an equally efficient business model, they will continue to be on top. I prefer to think that it is one’s responsibility to better one’s own self to better competition rather than blame everyone else for being better or just ‘mean’.

    Now please understand, I don’t mean to be adversarial at all, I understand that everyone’s opinion is valid, as if they weren’t those opinions wouldn’t exist. That said, I just want to say I disagree, and would like to be able to enjoy the sports uni news without the political analysis. Thanks for the site though, most of the time it is fun to read, you run it very well.

    Or, maybe people don’t like “Chic-A-Fil” because they treat some people like garbage and believe that those certain humans don’t deserve rights equal to those with “faith?”

    And, perhaps its because they’re using a legal strong arm to protect “intellectual property” that doesn’t really exist?

    i.e., like claiming they own “EAT MORE (anything)” …

    when in fact, they only own “Eat mor chikn” << in their specific spelling, their specific typeface.

    They're gonna lose this argument, and their gonna lose it in a big way. It's both a public relations loser, and a legal loser.

    If ever there was a theme for a TBTC night for the Braves, that uni would be IT!

    There’s a whole lot going on in that pic: Triple-color sewn 10″ numbers, level triple-color sewn NicNOB’s, red pins, flapless helmet. Wynn even has his cap folded up in his pocket. Love it!

    As a Braves fan, I wholeheartedly support this. As long as the team does indeed have plenty of fun with it and uses NickNOBs.

    One caveat – don’t have the third baseman’s jersey say “Chipper”. I would like to see it say something entirely crazy. We KNOW his nickname is Chipper.

    Of course, “Hooters” would be funny… and I can say it because I love the guy.

    I actually play baseball with a guy who works in their front office. I’ll have to chase him down and offer this idea.

    MLB wouldn’t DARE let them do the NicNOB’s. If only they would keep that a secret…just like back in the day…then it would be freakin’ AWESOME.

    Jeepers Wally…imagine how much those jerseys would fetch when put up for auction!

    Actually, MLB usually looks very favorably these days on ‘special’ jersey’s like throwbacks, or pink, etc. that help market a team. I’ll bet if the Braves wanted to do a one-time tribute to the 1976 team by using nickname jersey’s for current Braves in one game MLB would not be opposted.

    Amazing work by Jerry Wolper on the Braves nicknames front. It’s such a fascinating piece of baseball history and to be able to more precisely document it is terrific.

    I thought Jimmy Wynn was the “Toy Cannon.” Seem to remember seeing that on baseball cards as a kid.

    Yes. But as you can see from today’s splash photo, that wouldn’t have fit on the jersey. So they apparently just shortened the nickNOB to “Cannon.”

    Plus, those nicknames obviously are based on what the players called each other.

    Hard to imagine another player walking up to Wynn and saying, “How ya doin’, Toy Cannon?”

    Thank you. And, of course, thanks to the the Braves and to Bob Hope.

    I just wish I had access to the Atlanta papers.

    Update on the Endy Chavez cap-under-helmet thing: Turns out the helmet was way too big for him, so he was trying to use the cap to help “make his head bigger,” so to speak. You can see the helmet practically falling off of him as he rounds the bases in this clip:

    “I think a team loses something when it tries to look like someone else or tries to go after some ideal,” he said. “The Padres, ever since they dropped the brown in ’91, it looks to me like they’re kind of pretending. They should just go all out and be who they are. The Padres should look like the Padres.”

    Thank you, Tony Gwwynn.

    I really like it when teams come out with a uniform design that “swings to the fences” like the Astros’ Tequila Sunrise or the Canucks’ “Flying V” jerseys. It might be a home run in some people’s eye. It may be a whiff. But the teams go out, spend a lot of time on the design and take a big chance.

    Some teams don’t swing. They stand up at the plate, rest the bat on their shoulder and just don’t make an effort. These Atlanta jerseys with the red pinstripes are a pefect example. They went from a great blue and white set with the feathers on the sleeves (and each sleeve should have a feather – that’s another story) and just flipped a coin on each element. They look like they were ordered staight out of a catalog.

    I always thought that way about the first Ted Turner Braves uniforms as well – in fact my first thought when I saw these in 1976 was “where did the blue go?”. Of course the road uniforms they used were a continuation of the feather jerseys – just done in gray with blue sleeves. It seems like they should have kept the white feather sleeve uniform as it matched better with 1976-1979 roads than the generic red pinstriped home set.

    Full disclosure- I live in GA and have for almost my entire life. I love CFA food and I know Truett Cathy and his family through my wife’s family. He is a good and decent man.

    The brouhaha about the t shirt thing is getting way out of hand. I understand Paul’s point about how this vendor really won’t confuse the public.

    It’s my (admittedly) limited understanding of trademark law that CFA could lose the trademark for “the phrase” if they don’t defend it. Maybe that’s why they’re defending it. Maybe they should work out a licensing deal instead.

    It’s true that if you don’t defend your trademark, the courts can rule that you’ve lost the right to trademark protection.

    But the idea that bullying this T-shirt vendor constitutes a reasonable example of defending one’s trademark is laughable. If the guy was selling unauthorized “Eat More Chicken” T-shirts, then sure. If he was was selling “Eat LESS Chicken,” probably. But “Eat More Kale”? That basically means you own the rights to the words, “Eat” and “More” when they’re used consecutively, which is absurd on its face.

    too busy to actually watch the docu, but did he even spell it “mor” (isn’t that how the christian sammich people spell it)?

    i could see if he spelled it “eat mor kale” they might even have a point…but this is too much

    He spelled it “more”.

    ‘Eat More Hot Dogs (but without ketchup of course)’

    I agree Doug. I sort of doubt the Cathy family decided to go after the guy. More than likely it was a band of corporate lawyers who saw it and smelled blood, and convinced the company it was the right thing to do. Doesn’t mean the company should do it anyway, but there are always shades of gray. Nevertheless, Paul’s point still makes them sound pretty dispicable. Hopefully the real story isn’t quite so bad.

    And yeah, I don’t like lawyers. Sue me. Wait… what?

    Your values are what you do. Not what you might wish or prefer to have done, but what you do. That’s what “values” means as a word. If you actually valued things other than what your actions reflect more, then you would have taken different actions. This is not “good and decent” behavior. (Nor does it reflect Jesus’s very clear teachings on how to interact with one anothe, nor Paul’s extrapolations on how to live those teachings in the Epistles. For what it’s worth.) And no, it is not the case that using discretion and not siccing your legal team on every single arguable case of potential infringement will cause you to lose your trademark. Just not true. It’s about patterns. Letting the silly hippie artist in Vermont slide in no way threatens CFA’s intellectual property portfolio.

    Eat Mor Lawerz!

    There are many ways to protect your trademark. Chick-fil-A’s attorneys have simply the most aggressive path. Licensing, as you mention, can also be a way to protect trademark. There is also considering the situation, writing a few legal memos about it, and deciding to do nothing.

    If there would ever be a legal proceeding to determine whether or not Chick-fil-A had lost their trademark, they could point to all of the instances where they have sent cease-and-desist letters or initiated legal proceedings (that list that they provided to the Eat More Kale guy exists in case of exactly this kind of proceeding), and they could also note those situations where they did not feel that their trademark was threatened, and why. The court is unlikely to find that a reasonable assumption by the corporation that owns the trademark that the phrase was not infringing meant that the trademark was undefended.

    If Eat More Kale was the tagline to a restaurant, I would agree that in order to defend their trademark, they had to take more aggressive measures because of possible brand confusion. However, as a response to a homemade t-shirt slogan? Ridiculous.

    I went to the website and didn’t find “Eat More Chicken” as a protected tagline, trademark, intellectual property, etc. Perhaps its there somewhere.

    More on this issue: link

    When Penn State football comes back from its,hopefully,self imposed exIle,it should come back with a new name for the university. The team colors,uniforms,mascots and traditions should be overhauled. I also suggest that the athletic program should leave the Big Ten and go to a conference where their football program can better compete in the short term.

    Except for the alumni and the true believers,the Penn State brand is so toxic that it is
    beyond repair. I was in a sports apparel shop in a Buffalo,NY shopping mall last November,two weeks after the scandal broke,and stared at a full rack of Penn State sweatshirts and wondered-
    Who in their right mind would want to wear one of these now? Even now,I can’t believe that
    anyone who want to wear any Penn State clothing in public.

    Me. I will wear my PSU attire in public.
    I grew up watching Penn State football, and I’m a proud fan.
    The actions of that disgusting scumbag rapist do not represent the university, its alumni, or its fans.
    People in charge made mistakes – big mistakes – and they’ll get their due.
    I, for one, believe that this was a breakdown of a bureaucratic system (one that could happen in any large institution or corporation); I don’t see it as a result of an all powerful football program.

    That being said…
    don’t change the uniforms

    I respect your loyalty to the PSU program, tc. And it’s true there are a ton of good alumni and fans, of the university, and they had nothing to do with these horrible crimes.

    But this situation was unique in terms of how the football program touted itself endlessly, especially to new recruits for being clean and successful. It was led by a very powerful coach who told the public “I’ll leave when I want to leave”, words never heard before. The football program at the isolated campus was incredibly profitable as well, and this created a climate over the years which was dangerous. Throw in the worship of the head coach, and it was a perfect storm for scandal.

    So the incredible failure of four key senior leaders to report Sandusky was a clear sign those men didn’t wish to disrupt the football machine. A formerly trusted assistant coach had betrayed everyone, but the four leaders were more concerned with public relations and image, rather than the victims. The fact Sandusky could have been stopped earlier, is extremely troubling. Also troubling is how Joe Paterno, of all people, succumbed to the pressure to win at all costs. Before this scandal broke, countless people would have assumed Paterno would have been last coach to have been involved in a coverup.

    The Paterno family is only making things worse by coming up with a sham investigation in order to protect Joe’s legacy and the estate.

    People’s logic is just plain odd sometimes.

    “Oh, my, if people find out about Sandusky it will destroy our program.”

    No, it probably wouldn’t have. Would have hurt it, yes, but likely not destroyed it.

    Instead they chose to think, “So we’ll cover it up. That won’t destroy the program.”

    Right. THAT was the good move.

    Excellent point, Ricko. And of course it goes without saying, their absolute FIRST reaction should have been, “Forget our image… how can we keep that guy from hurting any more kids?”. It sure sounds like that was an afterthought.

    I just don’t see how anyone, anyone, could know what Sandusky was doing and continue to allow him anywhere near campus.

    WFMU has had MP3s of the NFL Marching Songs album up for a few years now.


    And you can get a high-res scan of the cover link. Good views of the logos on that scan, too.

    Penn State’s uniform should include a patch for whatever child rape/abuse awareness program they choose. Or maybe even a different patch for each game.

    Big sky conf logo is simple enough, I don’t know if I like it as a conference logo but it is a good looking logo.

    And kudos to the Braves for getting the NOB graphics right. The red outline on the numbers gives the pinstripes a place to “die” into, and then the number gets its own white field, it works perfectly.

    I don’t find the Big Sky logo busy. It seems very plain, but the perspective distortion takes it in a weird direction.

    Lots of eccentric minor league baseball logos, most of which you’ve probably seen before, here

    Seen ’em all before, but you can never see that wonderful Montgomery Biscuits logo too many times. Best mascot ever!

    I like the Lugnuts and the Sea Dogs, too.

    if only they could become the montgomery walnuts, craisins and shredded cheddar

    I was given a minor league / non-pro league hat when I was a kid. I loved the logo, but was too young to really remember what the team was. The logo was a purple snake (sorry Paul) wrapped around a silver arabian looking sword. Can anyone help me out? I am guessing the team doesn’t exist anymore. I tried Googling it, but had no results.

    You guys are awesome! This is why I love uni watch. Well…this and the butchery talk. OK, this, the butchery talk and the long chain arguments in the comments.

    What’s interesting about that gas station is that it is right in the backyard of the Eagles and Giants. IDK, I guess Gulf will take the publicity, since it is in the process of a national comeback anyways. Is it still a Gulf station, or did it close and someone repaint it later?

    Does anyone really think Penn State will do anything other than play football this September in the same uniforms as last season?

    I don’t. They will take the field Labor Day Weekend and it will be business as usual. TV commentators will make a few remarks about the turmoil in the past year and Paterno’s passing.

    Exactly, even things of this nature will blow over quickly I believe and most of the folks will have a “its not the players fault” mentality. I’d doubt the commentators would want to stay on that subject more than few seconds.

    “Does anyone really think Penn State will do anything other than play football this September in the same uniforms as last season?”

    Yes. I assume serious changes will quickly emerge once PSU’s risk managers, attorneys, etc. explain to the Board that it faces almost limitless civil liability triggered by the university and its football program actions and inactions. The on-going criminal aspects of all this will be little more than a side-show compared to the amount of cash that will soon change hands.

    I love that big number on the back of “Cannon’s” jersey. I guess the Braves didn’t shrink the numbers when they added NOBs, like many teams did. Is it 9 or 10 inches tall? I just wish that when the nickname stunt was over, they went back to having number-only jerseys. The price of a little fun has thus been nearly 30 years of NOB uniforms. Ditch the NOBs!

    Can I take a guess on the nickname of Jim “Gallo” Moret?

    Both Gallo and Morlet (with an L) are wine makers in California. Maybe somebody saw Gallo and Morlet next to each other, and a nickname was born.

    Both Gallo and Morlet (with an L) are wine makers in California. Maybe somebody saw Gallo and Morlet next to each other, and a nickname was born.

    Good analysis!

    Moret was from Puerto Rico. “Gallo” is Spanish for “Rooster”. He either looked like a rooster, or he was feisty like a rooster, or he had a way with the ladies.

    The other explanation is way too convoluted.

    I thought the Braves did go back to NNOB after removing the nicks. I’m almost sure of it. I thought they went NOB in 1980.


    I checked it out. No NOB on the Braves’ home shirts ’til the style changed in 1980. So the nickNOBs were the only names ever to appear on the red pins.

    NOBs were added to the grey away jerseys — as they were to all NL road unis — in 1979.

    I’m digging all those Denver baseball jerseys, but I’d replace the Rockies’ uniform with the one I designed:)

    My gut reaction is that Penn State should take a year off football. The entire program has forfeited the right to cheer, celebrate and generally be merry about a fucking game. The entire program has forfeited the right to show up on game day and pretend nothing happened.

    Just like the SMU death penalty, the players would get the right to transfer without losing eligibility, so they aren’t harmed.

    In a year or two, see where we are. Forfeit the scholarships and drop to Division II (or whatever its called now) seems fair to me. The team gets a new visual identity at that time so that they don’t get to claim any part of the old program’s tradition.

    I know this “punishes” people who had nothing to do with what happened. Tough shit. I don’t think what would be best for the alumni and boosters is particularly important.

    Those WFL stickers are actually from mid-season ’74, after Detroit folded and Houston moved to Shreveport, but before New York moved to Charlotte and Jacksonville folded.

    Hee, hee… Shreveport Steamers. In a related note, given an infinite amount of time, every figure of speech will be rendered filthy.

    Actually, it must’ve been a good one because they were the Steamer (singular).

    I wouldn’t mind the Olympics-as-a-phenomenon half as much if it weren’t accompanied by the pretense that it’s a “movement” of the “youth of the world.” Maybe it was in 1896, but today it’s just another multinational entertainment corporation that has manged to persuade the taxpayers of the world to put up its operating capital and its own labor force to work without pay. (Rent-seeking reliance on government subsidies and refusing to pay your workers, by the way, are the opposites of capitalism, so this isn’t about being an anti-capitalist hippie.)

    Just cut the hypocritical BS, present yourself as the profit-maximizing predatory monopoly that you are, and I’d be much happier about watching what is often some of the best and most interesting sport on the planet. It’s the hypocrisy and cant that I mind.

    The sad part, Arr, is that the first portion of your last paragraph – “Just cut the hypocritical BS, present yourself as the profit-maximizing predatory monopoly that you are” – should be woven into the foundation of business ethics of every company and industry on the planet.

    At the risk of being labelled a Communist, let those who want to be good corporate citizens use marketing to further society by promoting their messages in terms of how they can use our support to help those causes they support.

    Let those who live and die by the quarter-percent of their stock options admit that they are cutthroat and have lost their way amongst the greed of the almighty dollar so that we may spend our money on something that betters us rather than lines the pockets of someone who doesn’t really deserve our support.

    Make me think of a line from THE WEST WING…

    “I’m tired of people who love doing business in America, but clearly can’t stand Americans.”

    “Gallo” is Spanish for a rooster or cock……since that player was Latin perhaps this is the origin. In Latin culture Gallo is linked to machismo

    “I’m not sure why this team is called the Tin Caps or why the best way to represent that was with an angry apple, but I kind of dig it. Go get ‘em apple tin man.”

    Maybe a lot of people there wear tinfoil hats?

    Since Disney’s been mentioned today, I suppose should note that they did a version of Johnny Appleseed and his pot for a hat…

    Here, I’ll make it easy…

    “Fort Wayne, Indiana is the location where Johnny Appleseed died…In 2008 the Fort Wayne Wizards, a minor league baseball club, changed their name to the Fort Wayne Tincaps. The first season with the new name was in 2009. The name “Tincaps” is a reference to the tin hat (or pot) Johnny Appleseed is said to have worn. Their team mascot is also named ‘Johnny’.”

    I can’t decide if it’s just that I’m old, but even with all the depressing news about Penn State, knowing that lots of people out there have no idea that Johnny Appleseed wore a tin pot on his head has really depressed me.

    About a year ago the Atlanta Braves tried to stop Disney from releasing a movie with the title of “Brave”. The Braves are tenants at Disney World’s spring training facility.

    Just because my daughter is a synchronized swimmer, I am compelled to point out that synchro is like doing gymnastics. Underwater. Without ever touching the bottom.

    The things we do for love.

    This really was for yesterday’s entry, but I was elsewhere (and my apologies if this has been covered):

    The BHOF database shows the Atlanta Braves wearing only red and blue during the ’70s. Didn’t they wear blue and green at some point in those pull-over, light-blue-road, feather-on-sleeve years?

    Yeah, no, I was thinking about the Braves.

    Thanks to each for the clarification to both you and Ricko.

    Now I gotta get my visual memory checked after a third of a century!

    After link, Penn State should change their name from the “Nittany Lions” to the “Flying Statues” (or “Flyers”, to appease the hockey crowd). As for the actual uniforms, a change might be in order. How dramatic, I don’t know.

    Changing unis would be seriously cosmetic and about an inch deep, as if the solution is simply to re-brand and all the bad thoughts will go away.

    “Oh, not, that wasn’t us, that was that other team.”

    Ya gotta own your stuff.

    Great Permanent Record entry today, Paul. I’m always fascinated by old photos.

    1. I don’t eat at CFA because a) their food is horrible and b) I prefer not to give money to companies that show their Christian faith. (see also, Hobby Lobby). And that’s my right. I know there are companies that are probably Christian but as long as they don’t publicize it that’s fine.

    2. Wow, Paul doesn’t like the Olympics? First I’ve read about that. ;-) I do like the Winter version mainly since I’m indoors at night more and also think those sports are much more fun to watch.

    RE: Corpus Christi Hooks

    It’s a “fauxback” that was given to fans at the game. Citgo has sponsored numerous jersey giveaways including green versions of the home jersey (for the environment) and camo (for the military).

    Great informative interview with Mr. Hope!

    I love this exchange:

    UW: And the nicknames were your idea?

    BH: I’m gonna say yes, with the caveat that it was one of those things where we were all sitting around talking about it.

    I have followed the Braves for 45 years. Bob Hope is a class act, and added some flair to the Braves when they had none on the field. His book about his time with the Braves is for sale on Amazon “We Could’Ve Finished Last Without You: An Irreverent Look at the Atlanta Braves, the Losingest Team in Baseball for the Past 25 Years”: link

    I vote no memorial or changes to the uniform at all.

    Firstly, JoePa does not disserve and should not be memorialized after what came out in the reports.

    Secondly, any memorial of any sort will inevitably be seen as a JoePa memorial. Even if you pretend it’s a “memorial for the victims”, it will be seen my most people as a JoePa memorial.

    Thirdly, while there have been memorials for tragedies on campus… Never for a tragedy caused by and enabled by the university itself. In my mind, such a memorial would be seen as a “sorry, should we not have done that?” gesture.

    Some may argue that no memorial is ignoring the child rape incidents. Nah- kind of hard to ignore. And its been addressed by Penn State already in such a bumbling, back-peddling fashion… At this time the right thing for them to do is shut up and take their lumps.

    Great lead interview. We’re lucky that Mr. Hope was so young and is still with us.

    But perhaps most of all, I literally did not know that the Braves ever looked like that. I’m so used to the 1972-1975 uni set, and then the unis that evolved from 1980-1987 into the basis for their current set (which, minus the crappy alts and the recent ruinous road cap, may be my favorite uniforms in baseball history, despite not much liking Atlanta, the team, its fans, or the nickname) that I had no awareness of the red pinstripes. Turns out that’s a hugely quirky interlude between one of the better 1970s designs and one of the masterpieces of the 1980s.

    Got me thinking: What teams have the best “abandoned” unis? That is, not just a slight variation on a theme, but a whole look that marks a distinct era in team history? Personally, I’d look to the burgundy-era Phillies and the teal-capped Marlins. Shooting-star Astros may be in that class for me too.

    The feather-sleeve Braves are a close call for me, but I never much liked the lower-case-A caps. And the green-and-blue Brewers unis are near masterpieces to me, but again the failure to find a workable cap design keeps it off my list.

    Shoot, I don’t know how that got nested here. Sorry, Christopher F, who by the way I agree with every word.

    This is all any of us talk about on a given day! But no uniform is really abandoned; they keep returning on Turn Back the Clock Days.

    I know, but I mean, as a sort of specific subset of uni history, the abandoned-look. A lot of teams have a history of variations on a theme or two. I mean, as interesting as the Pirates have been over the years, for half a century or more they’ve all been relatively minor variations on the theme of black and gold with a certain style of lettering. Fewer teams have such discrete discontinuities as, say, the Diamondbacks, or the Angels’ foray into the blue-blue Disney era.

    A lot of classic uniforms that we mostly agree that we love, or love to hate, are more on the order of variations on a theme or evolutionary steps. Truly distinct abandoned identities are less common, and that’s specifically what the Braves got me thinking of.

    “What I would do is just line up the players on our living room table, imagining plays and moving them manually. ”


    Personally, I don’t see any point in changing the Penn State uniform. Changing the uniform won’t change the fact of what happened in State College, PA. The school, the football program, and the fans can justify it by arguing that a change would put this ugly era in the past, “create a fresh start”, etc., but it wo’t change the thoughts of others about what happened.

    I’m not even going to pretend like I know everything that is illegal with the Olympics (I just presume everything is, particularly after the articles you’ve posted). However, I’ve seen that BBC America has a show called “Twenty Twelve”. It’s heavily implied that the ficticous show is about the Olympics. I haven’t heard of them getting any heat, but I’ve got to think the IOC isn’t pleased with it.

    Maybe not. Sebastian Coe (the head of the Organizing Committee) appeared as himself in a couple of episodes. Part of that trait that the British love so much — being able to make fun of yourself.

    My first thought about the possibility of changing the Penn State uniforms is that it would take a long long time before anyone would look at their uniforms and not think of the scandal. No one would be under any pretense that the uniforms changes for any other reason.

    I think that could be good and bad. — Yes, it would be a memorial/reminder of sorts — but it would also perhaps hinder the “moving forward” of the school from its errors.

    To be honest, I don’t know. Although this may sound hackneyed, the “clean” plain uniforms almost strike an ironic statement now.

    If you can find it, “We Could’ve Finished Last Without You”, Bob Hope’s memoir of his time with the Braves is a funny and enjoyable read. It came out in 1991 right before the Braves turned things around. Besides NNOB, that team had some promotions and PR stunts not even the most desperate independent league team would try now.

    It’s come up on the site before, but it looks like today the Potomac Nationals (Class A Carolina League) have fromally announced the plans for their stadium in Woodbridge, VA:


    Penn State football should change nothing about the uniforms except for adding some design to the helmets that honors victims of child abuse and/or sex crimes.

    A sizable chunk of the gate from home games this fall should be donated to charities that help victims of these crimes and promote their prevention.

    A short while ago, while flipping channels, I passed by a PBS station, and they were doing the “This program was made possible in part by…” segment. One of the sponsors was Chick-Fil-A.

    I probably wouldn’t have cared so much, but it was their own little segment, in which the camera zoomed out from a closeup of the logo on a chalkboard to reveal one of their stupid cows, with a snide comment by the announcer (“The cows… don’t have a beef with that”.

    They could’ve just thrown the logo up there for 5-10 seconds and had a voiceover saying that they support quality educational programming (which was the first half of this segment, actually), and that would’ve been fine. But that they just HAD to throw in the damn cow reference…

    So, yeah. I’m with Paul. FUCK CHICK-FIL-A.

    Paul did you ever get a chance to see the New York Yankees NASCAR setup? in 2003, they used Christian Fittipaldi and sponsored one race, with Fittipaldi in a Yankees driver suit.

    My dad actually has a copy of that NFL Marching Songs LP. We’ve digitized the songs, and play the Giants theme (called “Touchdown” and introduced by Kyle Rote) before every game, and after every Giants touchdown. I’m surprised to see it going for 150 pounds, but I doubt my dad would be willing to sell.

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