Skip to content


DennisBrown Keith Good michael kaus

From top: By Aleks Brown, by Sarah Good, and courtesy of Michael Kaus

From top to bottom: Dennis Brown, Keith Good, and Michael Kaus, three Cleveland fans who’ve been “de-Chiefing” their Indians gear by removing the Chief Wahoo logo. They’re all profiled in my latest ESPN column.

I’m sure some of you think you already know what this column is going to say, to which I can only say this: I suggest you read the column before making assumptions about it. You might be surprised. ”” Paul

+ + + + +

Mike’s Question of the Week (aka “I Wanna Know”): Last Wednesday intern Mike Chamernik (that’s him at right) asked everyone what they’d use as their walk-up music if they were in the big leagues. Lots of you participated, so I asked Mike to pose another question to the readership today. Here’s what he came up with:

I attended yesterday’s Twins/White Sox game, which went 11 innings and lasted over four hours. I’ve always wanted to attend a marathon game just to say that I’ve done it (and I love the quirky 14th inning stretch).

What’s the longest game, of any sport, that you’ve ever attended in person? How long did you stay, and what sort of weird stuff went on as the extra innings (or extra overtime periods) piled up? Post your answers in the comments. And if you like, include a link to the box score on, or whatever other sports reference site might apply.

+ + + + +

MLB update: Unusual move by the White Sox, who yesterday began wearing a “DJR” left-sleeve memorial patch for owner Jerry Reinsdorf’s son, David Reinsdorf, who died a month ago:

The Sox didn’t wear that patch for Monday’s season opener. In other words, they added a memorial patch for the owner’s son on the second game of the season. Very odd — especially when you consider that Jerry Reinsdorf also owns the Bulls, who’ve been wearing their own “DJR” patch for four weeks now.

Meanwhile, a little birdie tells me the Dodgers will be adding a memorial patch for Dr. Frank Jobe on Friday. Sorry, no visuals yet.

+ + + + +


Unmasking the Commenters: I recently invited the site’s commenters to tell us a bit more about themselves and give us a peek at what they look like, just because I thought it would be fun to pull back the internet’s curtain of anonymity. I’ll keep showcasing you folks as long as you keep sending in your photos and quick bios.

Today’s commenter is Anthony Giaccone:


I’m Anthony. Nothing fancy like “WhiteBroncoChase” or “FritzPetersonSwap” — just plain old Anthony.

I’m a charter Uni Watch member and really only comment on what I perceive to be very badly designed uniforms. Why? Well, I’m a graduate of the School of Visual Arts with a BFA. I also have an MBA from NYU and have spent the last 20+ years as an executive creative director for a global marketing firm. I tend to be a uniform and logo traditionalist and totally abhor current uniform trends. I love stirrups, plain black cleats, and uniforms with no names on the back. I was born in the Bronx and therefore by birthright am a lifelong Yankees fan. Last year my wife and I relocated to Chicago to get away from the super-storms, hurricanes, nor’easters, 10-foot snowdrifts, and eroding NYC infrastructure. Now we attend Cubs and Sox games for the price of a large beer at Yankee Stadium.

Thanks, Anthony (although I don’t think moving to Chicago is necessarily the best way to avoid extreme weather or massive snowdrifts). I appreciate your longstanding devotion to the site and your early enrollment in the membership program — thanks for helping to make Uni Watch a better place!

Do you want to be featured in “Unmasking the Commenters”? If so, send me a photo and a quick paragraph about yourself. You don’t have to reveal your real name, and the photo doesn’t have to show your face, but you must include a photo to be considered. Send everything this-a-way.

+ + + + +

Book deal reminder: In case you missed it earlier this week, our friends at Diversion Books have another exclusive offer for Uni Watch readers: The Bill James Guide to Baseball Managers, which is the definitive text on MLB skippers. It’s a great book (I first read it about 10 years ago), and Uni Watch readers can now download the e-version for only $2.99 — that’s 50% off the regular price.

+ + + + +

Tick-Tock: Today’s Ticker was compiled and written by Mike Chamernik.

Baseball News: Reprinted from yesterday’s comments: Looks like MLB’s G.I. Joe caps for this season will have camouflage crowns and team-colored brims and squatchees. ”¦ Ian Hunter chose the best and worst Blue Jays uniforms. ”¦ The Orioles successfully fit 2B Steve Lombardozzi’s name on their uniforms (from Andrew Cosentino). ”¦ UCF will wear throwbacks on May 10. Here’s a teaser featuring the school’s Citronaut mascot from 1968 (from Eric DeSalvo). ”¦ Seems like Champs Sports is selling black-and-metallic MLB jerseys (from Walter Young). ”¦ It’s still unclear if David Ortiz’s selfie with President Obama was spontaneous or part of a larger corporate deal Ortiz has with Samsung. I first saw it on Twitter as a promoted Tweet by Samsung, so draw your own conclusions. ”¦ Jerry Wolper attended last night’s 16-inning Cubs/Pirates game. “We were able to move down in extra innings, and in the top of the 15th we could hear home plate ump Bob Davidson yell ‘Eric! Eric!’ Eric Hinske, who’s now the Cubs first base coach, looked up, and a moment later he pulled off a soft cap and went to the dugout and put on a helmet instead.” ”¦ MLB is hoping to attract more female fans — or at least sell them more merch — via a Hello Kitty Partnership (from Marc Bauche).

NFL News: Wow, Packers players (Don Hutson, Charley Brock, Cub Buck accepting for Cal Hubbard, R.E. Lambeau accepting for Curly Lambeau, Johnny ”˜Blood’ McNally and Arnie Herber) received some great blankets in 1951! The blankets include the players’ years with the team and their uniform numbers (great find by Jeff Ash). ”¦ The Eagles tweeted a picture of the jerseys of the team’s newest free agent class. Okay, so all the numerals are stylized and vertically extended, but check out the “4” — it’s not even vaguely close to the one used on the field (from Justin Dilks). ”¦ Draft prospect Sammy Watkins posted pics of him in different NFL team uniforms (from Phil).

College Football News: Florida State will alter its Seminole logo, and here’s what the new version might look like. ”¦ Colgate football player Joe Hoague wore heavy-duty blocking pads for protection during practice in 1940 (from Ryan Dowgin). ”¦ Ben Fortney spotted this nifty 1939 Navy-Notre Dame ticket recently. ”¦ Here’s something pretty amazing: Georgia sends recruits hand-drawn portraits depicting the recruits in a UGA uniform (from Austin Gillis).

Hockey News: Here’s a really good article on how the Hurricanes have given us some insight into NHL jersey scheduling. ”¦ Mr. Rogers, from Mister Rogers’ Neighborhood, was an honorary captain for the Penguins for their 1991 home opener and was awarded a cardigan sweater with a “C” patch and a NHL 75th-anniversary patch (from Bud Parks).

Soccer News: Reign FC of the NWSL unveiled new jerseys (from Phil). ”¦ Chris Wondolowski still has an extra “W” sewn in the inside of the new USA jerseys. Wondolowski is one superstitious cat (from Phil).

Basketball News: The Final Four jersey patch was released yesterday. ”¦ Kansas City has an extensive history with the NCAA Tournament (from Kyle Romine). ”¦ Here’s a preview and a look into the Illinois rebranding that will be announced in two weeks (from Jeffrey Vanderziel). ”¦ The Windsor Express of the National Basketball League of Canada wears mismatched jerseys and shorts (from Paul Lee).

Grab Bag: “This is a tribute jersey the Newcastle Knights Rugby League team brought out this past weekend to honor Alex McKinnon who sustained a serious neck injury in a match against Melbourne a couple of weeks ago,” says Jimmy L. Griggs. “Basically, McKinnon was slammed down to the turf but had tucked his head. Still unsure if he is paralyzed or not. The No. 232 means he was the 232nd player to play for the Newcastle Knights.” ”¦ The U.S. Army has issued new regulations for how female soldiers can wear their hair while in uniform, but some black soldiers say the new rules are discriminatory. ”¦ Here’s what Nike golfers will wear for the Masters (from Joshua Edney). ”¦ And, although Tiger Woods is not in the Masters, Nike is still selling what he would have worn (from Brinke). ”¦ The word “Fastpitch” in Old English font looks like something else (from Phil). … North Korea’s space agency must be heavily influenced by NASA. … Not to act like I’m Captain Chicago with you guys, but I wanted to share this awesome site that has old Chicago (and national and some other cities, too) commercials, bumpers, TV shows and more. It also has old Chicago sports videos — just search by team name and you’ll see videos like Harry Caray catching a foul ball during a Sox game and Bob Costas in a Bulls television promo. If you enjoy old commercials like I do, then bid adieu to your free time today.

Comments (237)

    I read most of the de-chiefing article yesterday, so I apologize if I missed this part, but do the de-chiefers want to change the name of the team as well? Or is it strictly a movement against the chief wahoo logo?

    Speaking for myself, it’s only the Wahoo logo I find distasteful. As I understand, many Native tribes use the word Indian, so the name doesn’t necessarily need to change.

    That said, I would like to see Cleveland reach out to native peoples, perhaps something similar to what the Spokane (WA) Indians have done with the Salish tribe.

    Dear Michael Kaus,

    Here is a link to the twenty odd years of ICEA protesting against the racists Cleveland Indians Baseball team. You will find the history of the civil war between ‘we the people’ and special interest groups. It also describes the deteriorating situation of activists/protesters in the Greater Cleveland Area. What ICEA seeks first and foremost, is that twenty year odd illegal sanctions against the International Center for Environmental Arts by the Syndicate be removed…I would enjoy hearing your professional opinion.

    The ‘People Not Mascots’ Logo is meant to be a Native American protest caricature of the racists Chief Wahoo logo of the Cleveland Indians Baseball team. It was originally painted by David Jakupca at the historic ARK in Berea incorporating elements of the Theory of Iceality on Environmental Arts, it has drawn criticism from some sportswriters, fans and local businessmen, but gained immediate acceptance among humanitarian, religious groups and Native Americans. It gained international popular attention when it was it exhibited by ICEA at the 1993 UN World Conference on Human Rights held in Vienna, Austria and has become one of the most recognized anti-racists logo’s in existence. It also caused repercussions for the groups connected with using the logo in protest demonstrations and this has been documented in the INTERNECINE MATRIX link

    Why didn’t UCF keep the Citronaut? That is an awesome team name, better than Knights, and is a terrific logo. Central Florida Citronauts sounds good too. I guess they thought Knights would attract better players or something. Unique nicknames are awesome. Common ones just show no imagination.

    Apparently the students decided in 1970 that they wanted no part of being the Citronauts or having that represent the university.

    The Citronauts name is cool, but that logo totally sucks. It’s like a cross between Atom Ant, The Great Gazoo, & the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man. And not in a good way (like that’s even possible).

    Thanks Anthony, for classing up the joint with a pic in the Big House! Would love to know how/why a Bronx kid ended up in Ann Arbor, MI.

    My wife is a Michigan Alum and from Grand Rapids. (I’ve been a fan of the Wolverines since I was a kid so to see them beat Ohio State at the Big House a few years ago was dream come true). Go Blue!

    On the de-Chiefing issue, I think those who are against it use the wrong tactics sometimes. Yes, they are right about it but you can’t make people feel guilty or wrong or like they are being slammed who currently support it. Humans are notoriously resistant to any change and one should expect it. The way to go about it is to educate not make people feel negatively. One approach is to recognize that and to tell people it is just about doing the right thing by others like the Golden Rule. Catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

    That’s exactly why the de-chiefing thing is so smart. It’s visible, but not chiding. It expresses a personal conviction in a way that’s about demonstrating one’s conviction, not forcing it on others. It invites question and conversation. And it asserts the wearer’s continued loyalty to or appreciation of the team even in the midst of disagreement over the one issue.

    Yeah, I think this is perhaps the best policy of all. It’s priggish to lecture; don’t curse the darkness, light a candle.

    Well stated arrScott. This method is just something that isn’t in your face and if they are questioned just say they just think that it is the right thing to do by someone simply based on the Golden Rule if you will. The in your face stuff is what makes people respond angrily even when the change is the right thing to do.

    I think the larger question to ask is why these adult, grown men choose to wear jerseys, de-chiefed or not, at games (especially with their favorite players number – and perhaps name on the back) in the first place.

    Sixteen innings between Cubs and Pads in link. Was able to move down to better seats a few times as the night wore on. Else nothing that unusual for a game going over five hours.

    July 21, 2010 Mrytle Breach Pelicans vs Wilmington – 13 innings. Walked in when the gates opened and stayed to the end. Scored the game in my scorebook. Pitcher’s duel.

    Wonder if anyone attended the famous July 4, 1985 rain delayed 19 inning Braves/Mets game, where reliever Rick Camp hit a 2 out 2 strike home run to tie the game. After allowing a run in the top of the 19th Camp again came up to bat with 2 out in the 19th. He struck out to end the game, and at 4 am the Fourth of July fireworks show finally began. Sleepy neighbors thought they were under attack. I only watched the whole thing on TV with friends. link

    Are you referring to time or innings? Because I could say the longest game I was at time-wise was when Steve Trachsel pitched against the Cardinals in 2003. (Yawn) longest game innings-wise was 2008 when the Mets played the Astros. It lasted ten innings and I think the Pepsi party patrol came out once. That’s it.


    A’s @ Twins – A’s 6-5 in 18 innings.

    A group of us went and one of the guys brought his GF along. She wanted to leave after the 9th, so the rest of just started cheering whenever another inning ended up tied just to make her more upset. It made 8 extra innings with no runs a lot more enjoyable.

    That’s a helluva long time to sit in the dome with those plastic blue chairs! :)

    I did a double header in there for 17 innings, couldn’t take it much more than that (I know that doesn’t count for the question).

    Any time I see a team cram a long name on a jersey I always think of the poor Bills equipment manager who had to do this back in the day.

    The FSU logo is getting Nikefied. The FSU in the circle is the one introduced by then, and the feather looks like the one on the men’s basketball shorts.

    Overall, as an FSU alum I am not sure how I feel. It looks kind of pudgy and the accent line above the mouth looks odd.

    Well, he doesn’t look like he’s screaming…looks more like an “o face.” Should lead to some pretty funny memes.

    On a more serious note, I really don’t get the recent push to redesign logos. Maybe it isn’t a recent phenomena, maybe I’m just noticing it more now, but off the top of my head, I can’t think of a single example in the last 10 years or so of a redesign being better than the one it’s replacing, aside from maybe the NBA with the Warriors, Pistons, 76ers and Nets.

    Funny, I like it. The amateurish “Florida State” lettering has always bugged me.

    Couldn’t find a box score, but the longest game I’ve ever went to was NC State vs UNC in the 2013 ACC Baseball Tourney. It broke the stadium record for attendance with about 12,000 and even at 3AM when the game ended, there were around 8,000 still there. Amazing 18 inning marathon.


    I was at that game too. We lasted 16 innings before my friend’s gf wanted to leave. Watched the 18th at home. It was a great game, but losing it will always taint my memory of it

    The longest game I ever attended was Game 5 of the 2000 Stanley Cup Finals. The Dallas Stars defeated my beloved New Jersey Devils 1-0 late in the third overtime. Nearly two full games of hockey. This game was excruciating to sit through. The Devs were up 3 games to 1 and could have clinched The Cup that night. The game was just hours and hours of raised tension. It was hard to sit through such a long game without any scoring. There was no releasing nerves by celebrating or agonizing a goal scored for or against. Just a brutal experience right to the bitter end. Of course it turned out OK when the Devils got The Cup in game 6, so I will take it. But still…

    Game 5 of the 2000 Stanley Cup Finals was my longest game as well. It is the 33rd longest game in NHL history: link

    It was excruciating. I do not recall how long the game took in real time, but it must have been close to 5 hours. I remember getting home after 2AM, and my boss not being happy when I was late to work the next morning.

    I found it odd that he wore skates. How many ceremonial puck droppers wear skates?
    He looked pretty good on his feet actually.

    FWIW, it bears noting that Cal Hubbard not only was one of the original pro football and baseball players, but also the only person inducted into both the Pro Football & MLB Halls of Fame (albeit as an umpire). And the College Football Hall of Fame as well.

    I have a question regarding Michael Kaus’ jerseys. Based on the lack collar tag and the lack of the Majestic logo on the left sleeve, it looks like a replica jersey to me, which doesn’t actually come with the patch in the first place.


    The red one is hard to tell, since the collar tag doesn’t really suggest one way or the other, and I’ve found jerseys that come both with or without the patch.

    Both sleeves look pretty pristine, too, for having a patch taken off of them. I’d be curious to know more, like if he added a patch himself at some point and then decided to take them off.


    Here are some pictures before the patches were removed.


    Majestic logo on the RIGHT sleeve, patches were attached when purchased. Hope that helps clear up your concerns.

    Thanks Mike! That’s actually really fascinating, especially your cream jersey. I wasn’t aware they ever made them that way.

    Not a problem. My Process:

    1. Working with a seam ripper on the threads on top of the patch prevented hurting the jersey. Takes a long time.

    2. Peel slowly due to sticky backing.

    3. Lots of little threads to remove. Also takes a long time.

    4. Used Goo Gone to remove the stickiness off the jersey (I’d be careful if it was a white jersey, but there was not problem here).

    5. Iron the outlines to remove them.

    You can still see the outlines very, very faintly… since I know where they are I can easily see it in the twitter pic in the ESPN article.

    Man for that amount of work I probably would’ve just tried to sell it and bought the cream jersey I linked up top in my first post. They’re pretty much identical without the Wahoo patch. While I may disagree with you on Wahoo’s role with the team, I certainly respect your dedication to put in all that work to get it to something you wanted it to be and still look decent.


    The problem with the replica jersey is that the wordmark on the front is not made of cloth, but of plastic.

    Yea I was really disappointed when Majestic switched their replica jerseys to plastic, though I suspect it was to have more of a gap in quality between their replicas and their authentics. Their replicas pre-2009 or so were cloth letterings without a sleeve patch, and it was right around the time that Cool-base jerseys were just being introduced and not everyone on the field was wearing them, so the difference between a replica and non-Cool-base authentic was practically nothing except a sleeve patch haha.


    Rangers vs. Royals in 1991. My dad and I went to see Nolan Ryan throw against Bret Saberhagen. The game went 18 innings and ended on a wild pitch by Kenny Rogers. Since I was just a little guy, we left after the 9th and started to drive back to Springfield (about a 3 hour drive at that time). I remember staying up the whole way listening to the radio broadcast and waiting to hear the end in the driveway. I just remember thinking that Nolan Ryan was probably so pissed at Kenny Rogers.

    Honestly, I think the Indians should switch to the stylized C that Michael Kaus is wearing. Yes, I think it is a bit dated and probably could be tweaked. But it’s a lot better and more recognizable than the block C that they are currently using. Especially if the C is going to be a primary logo used on all the graphics everywhere.

    I agree. I think my main opposition to the Indians phasing out Wahoo is that the logo they’re choosing over it is just super plain and boring.

    I definitely think the Spiders name would be an interesting option. It’s definitely not a common name. I can only think of the U of Richmond who uses it.

    A big mechanical spider, maybe. I know they’re nature’s most efficient killers, but really, if you need to talk someone into a new nickname, there are flaws.

    Tony, the team was enough of an embarrassment that I can’t imagine the Indians wanting to connect themselves with it. The original Cleveland Spiders, who were gutted by their ownership, who also owned St. Louis and sent all the good players there, went 20-134 in their last season.

    I personally agree – in fact, I’d go further and link.

    But the block C seems to me to be a perfect mark for a Cleveland team. Plain? Sure, but show me the other team in baseball that uses a similar logo. Which makes it distinctive. And the plainness of it fits with a more general Cleveland sports aesthetic. Brings the Indians closer to the Browns. The block-lettering identity and uniforms look more distinctively Cleveland-ish to me than the script Indians jerseys and Chief Wahoo caps ever did.

    I totally missed on the walk-up song question. I’m just throwing mine out there anyways, even though we’ve moved on to other stuff.

    Collective Soul – Heavy
    Especially if I’m walking in as a relief pitcher.

    I attended a 19-inning Tigers/Indians game in 1984. I was 10 years old and we had managed to get front-row seats just to the side of home plate. It was a dream come true for me to have seats like that.

    I refused to let my parents or family leave. The game took 5:22 (which seems like a typical 9-inning Yankees/Red Sox Sunday night game).

    It must have finished at 1 am or so. I don’t recall if the city or the AL had a curfew at that point.

    I’m cheating here, but the longest sporting event I’ve ever attended was a Louisville Bats doubleheader around 2005(?). The first game was a make-up for the prior day’s rainout. Unfortunately, this make-up game also featured a lengthy rain delay and extra innings. The nightcap didn’t even start until nearly midnight. The players were opposed to playing. The umpires checked with the league office and it was decided that unless there was city statues preventing the game, then the game should go on. I remember this being a slow process and a waste of time if the idea was to expedite the second game.

    The second game was one of those swing-at-everything games with position players on the mound. The veterans who were able to play the seniority card did and either went home (is that allowed?) or laid low on the bench or in the clubhouse. By the end of the game, which was around 2am if I remember correctly, there were maybe 50 people in the stands — me and my buddy, a few other fans, a healthy number of scouts, and some players’ wives. We couldn’t figure out who the scouts had stuck around to see, and many of the wives had actually ventured to the park late in the night. Guess they had grown tired of sitting at home or had run out of other activities.

    Ultimately, we spent over 12 hours at the park. I had given blood that morning and had not eaten properly afterward, so, at one point, I went out an epic tear through the concession offerings. The only other quirk I can remember is that the scheduled stadium cleaning crews arrived and went to work while the second game was played. The organization invited us all down to prime seats as a way to corral the messes we might create.

    The longest game I ever attended was a 5 hour-28 minute, 12 inning back-and-forth shootout between the Rangers and Red Sox at Fenway back in September 1993:

    The situation was more memorable than anything. I was 6 with my parents and older brother, but the next day was my first day of school… ever (1st grade). For some reason my parents thought it would be a treat to bring us to the game to end the summer on a high note, but as the game went on, my brother and I did NOT want to leave until it ended. My parents willingly gave in and let us stay until the final out was made at 12:30am with the Sox losing 7-9.

    2008 MLB All-Star Game at Yankee Stadium. It ended at 1:38 AM the next day! It was a Tuesday night and my brother and I both had work the next day. I believe I still made it into the office. We were obviously extremely excited to be at an All-Star Game and to be at the All-Star Game at Yankee Stadium; as were most at the game. However, as it got later and later (earlier and earlier?!?!), people were getting restless. Most realized how usually insane it is to get out of the Bronx after a game and knew they weren’t getting home any time soon. I remember my brother and I and the people around us hoping they ran out of pitchers and seeing what would happen next. They didn’t, though. I think each side had 1 pitcher left. Definitely an awesome time and great memory.


    Longest game: in August ’89, my parents, brother and I went to Montreal to visit family. The only thing my brother and I wanted to do was catch a game at Stade Olympique – we had never been before. So we saw Dodgers-Expos on August 23, which ended up going 22 innings (I believe at the time it was the longest 1-0 game in history). At one point Tommy Lasorda complained to the umps about Youppi dancing on top of the Dodgers dugout, and they essentially ejected him from the stands (eliciting the second-loudest crowd reaction that night; the loudest came when he unexpectedly returned sometime around the 12th/13th inning). At some point our parents began pressing us go back to our hotel – that probably started sometime around the 10th. We were able to hold out until the 14th. We made the cabbie tune in on the radio – in the 16th, the Expos seemingly won on a sac fly, but the Dodgers appealed and the runner was called out for leaving third too early – I’ve still never heard an announcer more gobsmacked at a call.


    I think the larger question to ask is why these adult, grown men choose to wear jerseys, de-chiefed or not, at games (especially with their favorite players number – and perhaps name on the back) in the first place.

    Why does it bother you? I say mind your own business and don’t worry about it. I don’t wear jerseys to games but I’m not sure why anyone has a problem with those who do.

    “Mind your own business”…hmmm, that’s seems like pretty good advice for people who object to the jerseys that others are wearing, be they fans or be they players wearing the jerseys…

    Actually, Reggie, if you bothered to read the article (which we both know you didn’t), you’d know that the de-Chiefers aren’t telling anyone else what to wear. In fact, they specifically stated that they’re not doing that.

    I realize that doesn’t fit with the narrative you’ve already established in your head, so just carry on with that. Back here on planet earth, we’ll go about our business.

    Actually, my reference to people minding their own business (which was the choice of words of the previous poster) related to letting the operators/investors of a multi-million dollar business choose their own logos for that business. I guess it is a narrative in my head, but I also don’t think it’s that wacky of an idea that it’s not of this planet.

    The Indians have every right to choose whatever logo they like — nobody has ever claimed otherwise.

    But consumers can express their views via boycotts, and can hope that the expression of those views will prompt a business to change its position. That’s a proud American tradition.

    When Islanders fans objected to the fisherman logo, did you have any problem with that? Of course you didn’t. But there was zero practical difference between those fans and the de-Chiefers — they were advocating for their team to change its logo.

    I’m not sure it bothers me, nor worries me, at all. I just don’t get it. I’m trying to pin point when it all started. Maybe when authentic jerseys became available to the general public. I lived close to the suppliers so we could get McAuliffes and KM Pros right from the factory back in the day. I have a few authentic jerseys, one game worn that I treasure, a dozens of caps, and people don’t get why I like these things either, although I never told them to mind their own business.

    I just know that I probably stopped wearing jerseys at about age 15. I never consider wearing a Tom Brady jersey to a game, and I’m sincerely fascinated about why some do?

    It’s amazing how quickly public opinion can shift on topics such as sports logos. 15 years ago no one cared about this issue except maybe some Native Americans. Now it’s a crusade and the ultimate evil to have them portrayed as such. I daresay more of a hot button topic than healthcare! lol I support the changes, but man Americans are so fickle…

    Except it’s not really new. Stanford changed its nickname from “Indians” to “Cardinal” in the ’70s. St. John’s changed its nickname in 1994. There were anti-‘Skins protests outside Super Bowl XXVI in 1992, the same year The Oregonian link.

    I don’t think it’s so much that public opinion has shifted- well, it has, but not as much as you think. It’s more that these voices are heard more loudly with the Internet and how the ‘Skins have skated by, mostly by not being very good for the last 20 years.

    UMass changed from Redmen to Minutemen in the 1970s, too. And then in the 1990s some students were up in arms that Minutemen was too violent an image for their campus, and there was talk about changing the name to the Gray (Grey?) Wolves.

    15 years ago would put us at 1999. In addition to the examples above, you might remember that Chief Illiniwek has had a pretty troubled history since at least the mid 70’s. Americans may be fickle, but this issue has been making noise for quite some time. link

    July 2, 2004 – Orioles at Phillies (16 innings)

    The most notable thing about this game was that it was the always highly-anticipated fireworks night. I wondered as the game went on if they’d consider sending the capacity crowd home without the show, but sure enough they started lighting those things off at about 1:30 AM.
    As I recall, there were still 40-50% of the people remaining, probably because the fireworks were the whole reason they showed up in the first place.

    I am the only one that looks at the de-chief wahoo silhouette and thinks it should maybe be used to replace wahoo? It keeps the historical element but removes the controversial element.

    Ah, WSNS in Chicago. The combo of Harry Caray and Jimmy Piersall in the broadcast booth was easily one of the strangest in baseball–yet perfectly fitting for the old “Kaminsky Park” in the 70s.

    The link provided by Paul is also noteworthy because it starts off with Jimmy Piersall promoting an event that was to happen the following day: Disco Demolition Night.

    Yep! That clip is gold. I love Jimmy Piersall going nuts in the booth for the foul ball.

    The longest ballgame I recall attending was a 17 inning Dodgers @ A’s interleague matchup, June 17th, 2006. It started late afternoon when it was sunny and 70 degrees, and left me, 5+ hours later, shivering in shorts and a thin t-shirt on a typically chilly, foggy East Bay summer evening. I distinctly remember the game ending on a walk-off walk. A’s win, A’s win!


    Maybe it’s because I don’t actually cheer for any local teams, but I really don’t understand how anyone could be so anti-Wahoo as to actually rip the logo off of a jersey, but yet still support the Indians as a team. If my favorite team was doing something I hated that badly, I honestly think I’d just pick a different team.

    As for longest games… I know I sat through a 13 or 14 inning Toledo Mud Hens game as a youngling of 8 or 9, but I can’t even remember if they won, let alone who they were playing. By that point I just wanted to go home.

    I don’t disagree – I live in the DC area but I don’t think I could ever get myself to support the ‘Skins.

    But I also get the de-chiefers’ perspective – it’s one thing to support a franchise if their entire business was built on something really awful. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to compartmentalize the Indians and like their baseball and overall culture while disliking Wahoo.

    I’m kinda going through a moral dilemma myself, because I’m a North Carolina Tar Heel but the ongoing academic scandals are making it hard to be an unabashed fan.

    I’ve been trying to think of an analogous approach to the Redskins. I would love to have an NFL home team, and I like a lot of what the Skins are doing on and off the field lately. But I’m not sure there’s a way to “de-chief” when the problem is the name itself. The Indian-head logo is perhaps the least-objectionable thing about the team!

    I’m also not much of a supporter of University of Minnesota sports, despite being an alum, because as a journalist in the late 1990s I got to see just how the athletic department treats its student-athletes. The exploitation and abuse I witnessed was absolutely shameful; makes it really had to be proud of anything Golden Gophers sports do. (But I’m sufficiently hypocritical to watch and root for the hockey Gophers in the NCAA tourney anyway.)

    I think my position on college sports is close to yours – I’m at a point where I almost no interest in anything that doesn’t involve the Tar Heels (and even that is slowly fading).

    A lot of it is my reaction to the fundamental intellectual dishonesty of collegiate athletics, not to mention the academics and ethics scandals that result from that dishonesty. Pro sports aren’t perfect, but at least they’re built on relatively smaller piles of bullshit.

    I totally understand loving a team, but not a logo.

    It’s not quite analogous to the de-Chiefers, since my objections are based strictly on aesthetics and not a moral choice, but I feel much the same way towards my Milwaukee Brewers.

    I’ve been a Brewers fan since the early 1970s, but I hate the logos and uniforms they adopted in 1999. I won’t ever give up the team, but I don’t buy much merchandise for myself or my kids. And when I do, it’s retro. No reason they can’t love their club while simultaneously wishing it would drop an outdated and racist logo.

    Personally, I just can’t bring myself to be that transient with my fandom. I actually tried to make a conscious decision to switch teams. I don’t live in Cleveland, so it’s not that they’re my local team. (Though I did adopt them when I was in college in Cleveland.) But I always keep coming back to my favorite team being my favorite team. I’d like them no matter what they’re called or what their logos were, though that doesn’t mean I have to like the name or logos.

    Longest game I ever attended:

    Aug 6, 1989: Chicago Cubs @ Pittsburgh Pirates; 18 innings, 5 hrs 47 mins.

    I was just barely 9 years old, but the game has stuck with me due to the unscheduled “doubleheader.” I remember tailgating with my uncles before the game, and then throwing a football around in the parking lot as it got dark. (It was a day game.)
    I don’t really remember passing time at the game, but I have always clearly remembered Jeff King ending the game with solo homer…which interestingly nobody referred to as a walk-off! As King was a known part of the early 90’s Pirate teams, this game was only 2 months into his MLB career.

    Sorry I’m so late, but in case you see this, there was even a 45-minute rain delay. I left that game after nine innings because of a previous commitment. When that was over, we got in the car, heard that the game was still going, and got back to Three Rivers in time for the 18th. I’m still sorry I missed Scott Little’s career highlight, though.

    Random kind of funny thing about today’s “Unmasking the Commenter:” What’s that logo on the scoreboard at The Big House? None other than that of DII Slippery Rock! Michigan fans love Slippery Rock. One of my favorite weird Michigan traditions. link

    Good catch! I’m from Western PA and my brother went to SRU.

    Another good example of why I love this site!

    Can’t blame WondoWlowski for being superstitious – he’s now scored 11 goals in 10 games with the extra ‘W’.

    De-chiefing? Give me a break. And look at who’s doing it – pale, liberal, scrawny pussies. Stop glorifying these assholes. Every time you mention something having to do with this nonsense I think of the south park episode with the smug pollution. I lov tthe site but your douchiness is insufferable sometimes. Thaaaaanks!

    I slightly agree with the first few sentences. I don’t know if their pussies, or scrawny.

    I think it’s shameful and an affront to to the team. You bought the jersey so they have your money already. then you desecrate it?

    three people really? this deserves lead on your blog because three fools decided to wreck a jersey?

    What about the THOUSANDS coming out in support of the logo on facebook groups. What about all the people who get wahoo tattoos? Why no mention of them? Yet grasp at straws because of 3 idiots.


    link 5,000+ likes and growing

    This is the groundswell that we should be talking about

    Even the Cleveland Indians know where all of this is leading, thus the de-emphasizing of Chief Wahoo.
    5000 Facebook likes or not.


    Why no mention of them?

    Did you read Paul’s article? (Rhetorical question: Obviously you didn’t.) He writes at length about the anti-de-chiefing movement, and concludes by asking for input from anti-de-chiefers for a promised follow-up article.

    As to “desecrating” the jersey, I do not think that word means what you think it means. In order to “desecrate” a thing, that thing must first be sacred. Yet few things could be less sacred than a piece of sports merchandise. It’s the definition of secular, or of “profane” in the theological sense. To call a baseball jersey sacred, even by implication, is deeply heretical. It is literally idolatrous, and thus a violation of the First, Second, and arguably Third Commandments.

    Some other guy’s baseball jersey isn’t a holy relic, and it doesn’t belong to you. It’s just a piece of personal property, and he has the right to do what he wants with it.

    Someone didn’t actually read the article. Even though I made a point of saying to go read the article before pre-judging it.

    Some people you just can’t be rational with.

    sorry. I really shouldn’t have posted this here without knowing for sure that “telltherealstory” and “Jackson Frowne” are like-minded on this topic.

    the sentiments they’ve posted are similar, but not quite the same.

    What I find so fascinating is the attitude of the more public people on both sides of this. The three people featured in Paul’s article seem to have been making a small, public gesture related to a personal choice, while Wahoo… defenders?… have a vocal and belligerent sub-set that seeks to speak for all Indians fans rather than for themselves. And that sub-set, by being so vocal and angry, have made themselves the face of their side of the argument.

    I did expect at least one of the people Paul profiled to have been of a mind to be pushy about their anti-wahoo stance, and was surprised to find that their stories very closely matched my own path to becoming a Cleveland baseball fan who excludes Wahoo from my wardrobe.

    As an aside, I thought about how I hadn’t even thought to De-Chief any of my older Indians paraphernalia. I don’t own any jerseys, but I have dozens of hats and a couple of other things here and there. Instead I had just retired the older stuff and bought new stuff without the Wahoo logo (and, if I can find it, without the word “Indians” as well). But then I remembered that the block-C hat I wear now did once have a little fabric tag on the back with a teeny-tiny Wahoo on it, and that I cut the tag off a couple of years back. So I guess I am a DeWahooer after all.

    Conservative Republican here, and I support Paul’s so called “adgenda.” Human decency and respects should cross idealogical lines. Thanks for revealing your true colors too.

    Thanks Mike, for saying what I’ve meant to say for a while. I know most of the readers of this site are intelligent enough to realize this issue crosses political lines, but as a pretty conservative guy myself, I hate every time some troll throws out the “liberal” label. Removing racist imagery from sports isn’t a political debate, it’s simply an argument for doing the Right (Correct) Thing.

    I guess the important thing is to not let the trolls bother me. The scary part is the thought that some of them might not be trolling.

    I think this paragraph from Paul’s ESPN piece is relevant here:
    But the Wahoo situation, much like the controversy regarding the Washington Redskins’ name, has become a proxy battle for a series of larger culture wars: liberal versus conservative, red state versus blue state, even jock versus nerd.

    I don’t think these people are bothered about losing Wahoo or the ‘Skins nickname per se. They just see the opposition against Indian caricatures as part of a movement that they dislike.

    You know the proverbial man with a hammer who thinks everything is a nail? These trolls-maybe-not-trolls have a “Keep America American” hammer and everything they see is a liberal scourge nail.

    “…it’s simply an argument for doing the Right (Correct) Thing”

    That is where you guys lose me on this. You state that like it’s a fact, when it is clearly an opinion. It just seems smug to me. I don’t care about Wahoo one way or the other, but the argument loses validity when you state it that way.

    One thin in life is constant, change. I would like to think that as the years pass we as a culture can become more sensitive. What was proper in the 1940s, or 1960s may not be today.

    I am hesitant to label it at “PC run amok,” especially in the case of a toothy red faced Indian. It is equivalent to those logos (that were displayed on Uni Watch previously), depicting an African American, Jewish person, and Chinese individual as Cleveland Indian inspired caricatures.

    Whether you want to classify it as a right/wrong stance I find the continued use of Wahoo indefensible.

    Joe, of course it’s an opinion! You experience your own values and opinions as facts, and state them as such, just as does everyone. So don’t get all hot and bothered when everyone else behaves exactly like you.

    Unless of course you end literally every sentence you speak or write with something equivalent to, “… but that’s just, like, my opinion, man.” If you don’t do that, then chill out and learn to live with the fact that other human beings have values and opinions too, and the right to express themselves, and that their doing so doesn’t actually harm you in any way. Truth is, most of us are wrong about most of what we believe most of the time. But we apprehend the world as best we can, with limited knowledge, limited experience, and limited wisdom. Expressing one’s values and opinions isn’t smug, it’s human, and ultimately every question of values or ethics is just, like somebody’s opinion, man. You’re not required to start with, “I believe …” every time you express a belief, because everybody already knows that the stuff you say reflects your beliefs and opinions.

    I may be thinking of a different set of logos than you, but there was an article featuring some photoshopped Jews and Chinamen baseball caps, which was featured on here, and on a few other sites I lurk on, and there were multiple comments from people claiming to be Jewish who said they’d wear the hat if it was real. There’s also the Tottenham Hotspur and their “Yid Army” fanbase, as well as plenty of self-professed “Rednecks”, despite that being an insulting term for many.

    Chief Wahoo may be a racial caricature, but whether or not it’s actually racist is really in the eye of the beholder. Let us not forget that there is no consensus among the Native American people and that there are in fact a significant number who do in fact support these teams.

    It isn’t a simple “wrong or right” issue.


    there were multiple comments from people claiming to be Jewish who said they’d wear the hat if it was real… as well as plenty of self-professed “Rednecks”, despite that being an insulting term for many

    That’s kinda missing the point. There’s a world of difference between self-mockery or owning an insult, and wearing something that mocks another ethnic group. The n-word is a term of endearment precisely because, not in spite of, it’s racial slur. Of course a Jewish person thinks it would be cool to “own” a racial caricature.

    I’m Asian, and around my Asian friends, I’d make fun of Asian stereotypes, and that’s the thing – we defuse caricatures and slurs by owning them. That does not, however, make it okay for me to put on blackface and shuck and jive on the sidewalk.

    Chief Wahoo may be a racial caricature, but whether or not it’s actually racist is really in the eye of the beholder.

    Had you said “offensive” rather than “racist” I would have agreed, but racism is a concept of cultural, rather than individual, significance. In the case of Wahoo, the fact that the image evokes still prevalent notions of Native American primitivism, notions ingrained within American social and historical consciousness and which are direct impediments to the challenges faced by one of America’s most marginalised groups, is what makes it racist.

    Chief Wahoo is a cartoon or a drawing. It is a logo. There is no consensus on if it is good or bad.

    Now we have a small handful of guys trying to make some kind of statement to get attention.

    Chief Wahoo is not real. Just like these 2 are not real


    I’m an old-fashioned conservative – historically, I’d be something between a Federalist and a Whig; they don’t really make political parties for someone with my leanings anymore – and the funny thing for me is that in most of the “controversial” issues where Paul gets called a “liberal” or “communist” or whatever, I see him taking the intellectually and culturally conservative position. Whereas his name-calling critics generally argue – well, “argue” – from a radically materialist position that rejects any imposition of external values on either marketplace activity or personal desires. That’s the opposite of what “conservative” means! (Though it’s largely what the word “conservative” is used to describe in the context of American politics.)

    Paul consistently advocates for respecting established practice and for testing customs and personal whims against shared values, community standards, and the common good. And for this consistent application of what amounts to Burkean conservatism, he gets called a “liberal” by people who call themselves “conservative” while themselves advocating the tenets of the 19th century anarchist left.

    Scott, you’ve done a pretty good job illustrating why political labels are so unhelpful at describing any movements more than a generation apart. Burke would be horrified at many who claim the label “conservative” in America today.

    And “Federalist” has come to mean the polar opposite of what Hamilton and George Washington stood for. Strange.

    Historically, I think I’d be somewhere between a Know Nothing, a Habsburg princess and Marlon Brando in Apocalypse Now had he been a member of #TeamJacob.

    Mr. Lukas’ politics are pretty consistently to the left of mine, but the mascot issue isn’t one of left/right. There are many examples of folks on the left showing profound disrespect to their opponents, so it’s not like the left has any kind of claim to cornering the market on being respectful of others. Seems to me that Chief Wahoo is substantially more offensive than the Redskins name and something that’s easier to change, so it makes sense to do so out of respect.

    Suggesting that ethnicity (or any other demographic characteristic) determines political positions is both idiotic and loathesome.

    . . . and much of the opposition to changing Wahoo, Redskins, etc. is connected with who the messengers are and other things they’ve advocated. But if the stopped clock says 1014 at 1014, just because it was wrong for the previous 719 minutes doesn’t make it wrong at that particular minute

    I’m somewhat amazed at the long, civil, and well-reasoned message thread that developed from an original post that contained the phrase “liberal jew agenda.” Nice job on redeeming this one, Uni Watch commenters!

    As per great walk up songs…. my personal fave was when Albert Belle came up to the plate at the Jake to the intro to Hells Bells by AC/DC

    I was at the 22-inning game The Padres played against the Rockies in 2008. We stayed until about the 11th inning, left and had a few (more) beers at a local bar. When the game hit inning 15, we walked back to Petco Park and tried to re-enter the game. The usher at gate told us we weren’t allowed in, and if we wanted to re-enter we needed to have our ticket stamped when we left. Long story short, we watched the rest of the game at the bar and all got home around 2:30AM. That made for a rough day at work, but a memorable story.

    The usher wanted you to get your ticket stub stamped? What’s the point of having a ticket stub, if it’s not sufficient to show that you paid to get in? Or is there a black market of people picking up discarded ticket stubs off the ground and then selling them to fans outside the park who want to get in for a discount?

    Longest game?

    Tribe home opener against the Red Sox in 1992. The guys in front of me brought in their own cooler full of Bloody Mary mix and one of them spilled their drink all over me when he got scared by the pregame fireworks. I spent the next NINETEEN innings smelling of tomato juice and booze. By the end of the game, Boston’s starter for the next day, Matt Young, was warming up in the visitor bullpen when Tim Naehring hit a home run. We came back for the opener of the double header the next day, with new pants on of course, and saw Matt Young throw a no-hitter and LOSE. Still probably the 2 most bizarre games I have ever attended.

    Wow that’s great. Not to defend the guy, but pregame fireworks make me jump from time to time.

    My wife was like that at a Columbus Blue Jackets game. They have a canon they fire whenever they score, which made her jump because I think she forgot about it by the time Columbus scored. (This was a couple years ago when they were especially bad.) What was worse, though, was the PA announcer was specifically talking about the canon in the pre-game warning they were about to fire the canon as an example, and she still about jumped out of her seat when it went off!

    The great, great @si_vault Twitter feed is posting a great set of Washington Bullets photos under the link.

    My favorites for very different reasons: link and link.

    Weeeeess Unnnnseeeeellllld!
    Daaa-aaaaave Biiiiiiiiing!
    Elviiiiiiinnn Haaaaaayes!

    I think thats about the last time I was at an NBA game!

    There’s a few folks I never ever saw with a smile on their face; Wes Unseld, Randy Myers, Harry Hamilton (one time Penn State DB) and Wilford Brimley.

    Don’t be silly. Here’s Wes showing his unbridled joy at winning the 1978 NBA Championship.

    Thank you Paul and UniWatch for highlighting me today. I know that there are a vast number of other UniWatch members and fans who are much more worthy of a shout out than me, but I truly appreciate it, thank you. …Go Yankees!

    Follow-up to Mike’s question: what’s the etiquette for leaving an extra-inning game early? Obviously, it’s a grave sin to leave any regular-length game before its conclusion, but what’s a reasonable expectation for extras?

    My two extra innings games, neither of which I saw in their entirety:

    Cardinals def. Dodgers in 15 – I think we stayed through 12 or 13, but the wife had to work early the next morning, so it was probably near midnight when we headed out. (FWIW, I’d won the tickets in a drawing at work). link

    Mets def. Cardinals 2-1 in 20 – Pretty sure we stayed through 14 or 15 (you’ll see in the box that not a single run was scored in that time), then watched the next 4 innings at a nearby restaurant, and listened to the last inning on the drive home. That was certainly a frustrating game to attend. Jaime Garcia arguably outdueled Johan Santana, but the offense only managed a mere 1 run on 15 hits and 11 walks. 1/18 with RISP definitely won’t get it done. Pujols could have ended it much earlier, but the Mets had the gall to walk him in 4 of his 9 trips to the plate.

    Hmmmm… I’m not going to go Bill Simmons on ya and lay out the definitive fan rules or whatever, but if you leave for the sake of leaving, that’s kind of weak. I would hope you have a good excuse – work the next day, transportation issues, young kids are bored, bad weather, etc. I need to think about this more.

    This is funny — but it’s also a cliché that’s been rattling around for decades. Is it really true? Or, more to the point, is it any truer at Dodger Stadium than it is anywhere else?

    I’ve noticed that most Mets games have late-arriving crowds, just as Dodgers games famously do. I suspect a big part of this is the lengthening of the American workday, esp. among NYC professionals, who routinely work past 6pm and can’t make it in time for the first pitch at 7:10pm. I also see plenty of people leaving early to beat the traffic.

    I also think some of this has to do with all the extra “entertainment” options at the ballpark (upscale food, kiddie rides, shopping, batting cages, etc.). The actual ballgame is no longer the primary thing — it’s just the background, at least for some (many? most?) of the attendees. So why bother arriving on time or staying until the end?

    Now, granted, a shitty team (which is what the Mets have been for the past several seasons) is going to have a less committed fan base than a good team. But still — I’m pretty sure the Dodgers fans are no longer the only ones that fit the “arrive late, leave early” cliché.

    While anecdote is not the singular of data, I’ve been to several big league games at each of the Big A, Chavez Ravine, Jack Murphy, Mile High and Coors and a few scattered ones elsewhere. I saw vastly more arrive-late, leave-early at Vin Scully’s place than anywhere else – and that’s just from the mid-eighties until Y2K, before many of the items cited by Mr. Lukas. Didn’t even matter if it was a weekend day game.

    I attended an Orioles game in the mid-1990s, during their brief on-field heyday and when Camden Yards was so new it every home game was a sellout. I personally witnessed George Will get ushered into his front-row seat along the 1st base line in the bottom of the third inning, only to leave at the end of the sixth inning. Which meant he spent twice as much time commuting to Baltimore and back from DC as he did actually attending the game.

    Oh, and I forgot to mention he spent his entire 3.5 inning stay chatting on his cell phone. Douchebag.

    Same at The Ted. I’ve got a bad feeling it will be worse after the move when a “multi-purpose area” will surround the new park.

    Same with White Sox fans at The Cel. I always downed a few (cheaper!) beers in the parking lot and waited until the crowds were all inside. Then went in with no lines.

    As a Dodger fan who has been to been to many been to many ballparks around the country, I think the arrive late/leave early phenomenon has become endemic throughout baseball. That said, my fellow Dodger fans seem to be the worst offenders. They often blame traffic and the lack public transportation, but all it takes is a little planning. It’s not as if traffic to Dodger Stadium has just become an issue. Plan on an extra 30 minutes (or an hour) and you’re there on time.

    The longest game I ever attended in person also happens to be the best game I ever saw live: the one-game playoff for the NL wild card between the Colorado Rockies and the San Diego Padres on October 1, 2007.


    The Rockies won, 9-8, in 13 innings. After the Padres took an 8-6 lead in the top of the 13th, a small but steady trickle of Rockies fans started filing out of the stands.

    I vocally admonished those around me who were leaving that the game was not over. It wasn’t so much because I believed the Rockies would come back from a two-run deficit (although I certainly hadn’t given up hope). Rather, it seemed unfathomable to me to leave such an amazing baseball game, regardless of who won, before its conclusion. Both teams deserved the crowd’s appreciation and applause at the end of the game.

    When the Rockies rallied for two runs off of Padres closer Trevor Hoffman in the bottom of the 13th to tie the game at 8, I couldn’t help but wonder whether those fans who had left just a few minutes earlier were regretting their decision. Then Matt Holliday scored on Jamey Carroll’s sac fly to right to complete the Rockies’ come-from-behind win, and I was too busy celebrating with the 45,000 fans who were still there to care about those who had left.

    Are you entirely sure Holliday ever touched the plate in that game? I’ve always been a little dubious about that call. I will say that it was one of the best games I ever watched on TV, I’m sure being there was on another level.

    “Are you entirely sure Holliday ever touched the plate in that game?”

    I was wondering if someone might comment on that! Let’s just say that from my vantage point in the left field upper deck, Holliday looked safe to me. And Padres catcher Michael Barrett link link anyway, so, hey, I was fine with the call!

    Inaugural Game, Coors Field, April 1995:

    That was a 14 inning game, just shy of five hours and probably one of the coldest games I was ever at. Baseball Reference says the temperature was 42 degrees at first pitch, but it felt much, much colder.


    Three times the Mets went up with a chance to win it — 9th, 13th and 14th innings — yet somehow, the Rockies managed to get back into it, before Dante Bichette (mullet and all) hit a three-run home run in the bottom of the 14th to win it.

    The other one I was at was Diamondbacks-Giants in May 2001. That game was an 18-inning, 1-0 affair. Lots of three and four batter innings, but then the bottom of the 18th was exciting as the Giants managed to load the bases, but couldn’t score.


    I don’t care about the Wahoo controversy- just not on my radar, like the Washington NFL team, too.

    But I can’t afford a real MLB jersey, (well, I can, but they just cost too much to justify) so it’s a bit upsetting to see that first jersey trashed on the sleeve like that. It looks shabby and screams “Look at me!” IMO.

    I actually really respect the ragged sleeve. It makes a firm statement, and calls attention to the absence of a patch, showing that it’s not just a cheap(er) replica that never had a patch to begin with.

    Similarly, I prefer the haunting, raw look of link to this link.

    I took my father to his first game (and final game), he at age 70, and me at 35, at Fenway on 15 May 1991. Boston vs. the White Sox played what became the longest 9 inning night game in history at 4:11. Poor seats in the RF grandstand, chilly night, etc. I looked at the box and saw nothing interesting about the game other than its length. At best, my dad could have said he witnessed Boggs go 3-5.

    Today, I looked to see if it still was the longest 9 inning night game. But, it was eclipsed, again in Fenway park. The Red Sox and Yankees played two that day, the first game lasted 3:55. The second game droned on for 4h 45m on 18 August 2006, putting 36,071 to sleep, and breaking the record for the longest 9 inning game, day or night.

    I looked through my ticket stubs, and sure enough, I was there for that stinker too.

    “The Eagles tweeted a picture of the jerseys of the team’s newest free agent class”….is Sanchez wearing 3 because he’s only half the QB he was with the Jets? :-)

    I’m trying to think of a fumble joke for this, but everything I think of seems half-assed.

    Longest game: A’s at Rangers in 1979. 16 innings, finished around 2am. I had just graduated from high school and took my 12 year old brother to the game.

    We sat in right field and wanted to move to better seats but the outfield stands at old Arlington Stadium were actually outside the park. It was orginally a minor league stadium with newer sections built around it, so you left the stadium when you exited the outfield stands. They weren’t letting anyone back in, even though by 1am there looked to be about 15 people sitting behind home plate.

    My dad and I attended the 14 inning game between the Reds and Nationals on May 24, 2005, in Cincinnati. We stayed for the entire game, which included a 14th inning stretch, even though the ballpark is two hours from our home. One thing that stands out about the game was Reds relief pitcher Randy Keisler getting the game-winning hit, his first career hit.


    At first I thought the new FSU logo looked like a cartoon ’80s pop star. Then I saw the old one and realized they’re both cartoon ’80s pop stars.

    Longest basketball game:
    Notre Dame 116, Georgetown 111 (4 OT)
    02/09/02; MCI Center; Washington, DC

    I was going to Law School at Georgetown at the time and had student season tickets. Mike Sweetney and Wesley Wilson were big for Georgetown but the Hoyas had four players who fouled out and one injured by the middle of the fourth overtime. Georgetown had the ball and a chance to win the game in regulation and in each of the first three overtimes but couldn’t convert. Chris Thomas played all 60 minutes for Notre Dame. The atmosphere at MCI Center was as loud as I’d seen (even when compared to games against Syracue or Caps games) especially with the large Notre Dame fan base in DC.

    “The atmosphere at MCI Center was as loud as I’d seen”

    Should read something along the lines of:

    “The atmosphere was as loud as I’ve experienced/heard at MCI Center”

    Back in 2007 in watched a hockey game that went into the 5th overtime period. The game was a Semi-final of the 2007 Royal Bank Cup, the National Championship of Junior A hockey in Canada. My hometown team, the Prince George Spruce Kings, defeated the Camrose Kodiaks 3-2, with the winning goal coming at 6:01 of the fifth overtime period. And I watched the whole game. It was awesome.

    Longest baseball game:
    Cubs 6, Angels 5 (15 innings; time of game 5:08)
    6/13/04; Angel Stadium; Anaheim, CA

    This was a Sunday afternoon game and I was sitting in the right field bleachers. Game time temperature was 80 degrees and I was expecting to get some good sun, but certainly not five hours of baseball. It’s worth noting that when you get free, extra inning baseball they do not re-open the beer stands. Derreck Lee had a monster game for the Cubs with 5 hits, 2 walks, a homer, and 2 RBI. Jon Leicester (not to be confused with John Lester) got his first career win. I didn’t recall this, but Cubs manager Dusty Baker went so deep into his bullpen, he had Greg Maddux warming up.

    I believe its a law in Illinois that baseball games must stop serving beer after the 7th inning.

    When I was 16, I attended a Twins/A’s game at the Metrodome with my brother and some friends. The Twins were down 2-0 in the bottom of the 9th. That’s when Dave Winfield collected his 3000th hit of A’s closer Dennis Eckersly. Puckett scored on the hit. The fans reigned debris on the field, halting the game. Eventually the Twins tied it at 2-2. They fell behind again in the top of the 13th, but scored 3 runs I’m the bottom half to come away with a 5-4 win. We made the 45 mile drive home in the wee hours of morning. All on a school night. Great memories.

    I’m impressed with how smoothly Michael Kaus got the logo off his sleeve. Is that hard to do? Occasionally I’ve seen super-discount jerseys with number and NOB for someone no longer with the team, and have thought that it would be a bargain if I could just remove the old NOB without tearing the jersey. Is it difficult to do?


    I’ve gone over the process I used in this comment thread above:

    Bud | April 3, 2014 at 9:01 am

    I hope that helps. It takes some time, but I wouldn’t say it was hard. Mostly time consuming.

    Thanks, Mike. I hadn’t seen your detailed reply to Bud up top. Will keep it in mind if I ever acquire a beautiful jersey that needs some refinishing!

    Paul may have already covered this, but my question would be, why do they two grey jerseys with just a different word on the front? Seems like one grey jersey too many.

    Why do teams need alternate jerseys period? Home whites and road grays should suffice. But far preferable in my view to have alternate white or gray jerseys.

    I believe they have alternates for one reason; merchandise sales. Plenty of adult males that have to have the latest team jerseys to wear to games to show their fandom off. Me? A pair of jeans, stirrups, comfy shows and a nice polo. If not wearing jeans just some shorts and a polo and nary even a team logo.

    While I’m not normally a fan of online ads and rarely click on them, the NASCAR ad for their Paint Scheme Preview was apropos.

    Junior Lake of the Cubs wore link at the start of today’s Cubs-Pirates game.

    Guess this is what happens when you play a 16-inning game that ends around 1 a.m., then start another game 12 hours later.

    Junior Lake was wearing the right jersey. Everybody else on the team was wearing the wrong one.


    Let’s just say that Junior’s wearing the jersey that’s less wrong than the rest of the team.

    But why on earth did they even bother bringing their “primary” road unis with them for this trip. They’ve worn the so-called alts for all three games.

    And one other thing – Charley Brock is holding Clarke Hinkle’s blanket. Hinkle couldn’t attend, so it looks like he was standing in as Buck was for Hubbard. Brock was an amazing player, but never made it into the College Hall of Fame.

    I went to Southern California in 2000 to visit my brother at college and split the drive back home (to Oregon). We went to see the Dodgers play the Reds and it lasted 14 innings. My brother had a final exam the next day so he insisted that the 14th inning would be our last since he had to get to bed. The Dodgers ended up scoring one run in the bottom of that inning. I recall it being a questionable call that allowed them to score, and Reds manager Jack McKeon ran out of the dugout to challenge the umpire, probably out of some sense of obligation or some managerial instinct. But he gave up almost immediately, as if he realized that it was almost midnight and he wanted to get to bed too. It was kind of funny.

    Still unsure if that is truly what all teams will wear for Memorial Day Headwear. The Angels one is the only one Dick’s Sporting Goods has for sale with team color bill and squatchee. They have a Reds one that has camo bill and squatchee. I checked New Era website to and they also show an all Camo Mets Authentic which appears to be the inverse of last years (Blue with Orange Outline instead of Orange with blue outline). The New Era website does not show the Angels hat, though. Lids website had the Mets hat and th Reds Hat, but not the Angels hat.

    I thought that possibly it was related to home or away, but that is inconsistent, too (Angels and Reds on Road with Mets at Home).

    The two teams with all camo hats are both National League teams, while the Angels are American League, but that seems rediculous for one league to do it different than the other.

    Possibly the situation is still in flux

    The longest game that I ever went to was June 6,1991 the Texas Rangers were playing the Kansas City Royals at Kauffman Stadium. My father and I went to the game and sat in right field general admission. The starting pitchers were Nolan Ryan and Brett Saberhagen. The game went 18 innings but we left after 16 because I had a game of my own to get to that night. I was always a huge Nolan Ryan fan and Saberhagen was the best pitcher the Royals had at the time.

    The longest game I ever went to was the Red Sox and the Orioles in 2012. Game went 17 innings and featured a winning pitching performance by Chris Davis. I actually ended up behind the plate for the second half of the game and was wearing an Expos hat with a Red Sox jersey.

    The reaction on Twitter was decidedly mixed.



    As an aside, I also attended what was the (at the time) longest 9 inning game in history between the Sox and Yankees in August of 2006. The game was the back end of a double header at Fenway, and I believe the pitching matchup featured a rookie Jon Lester vs. Sidney Ponson.

    Haha. I get sunburned easily, so I’ve worn Arizona Diamondbacks, Washington Nationals and OKC Thunder caps to Brewers and White Sox games. Never paired it with a different jersey, though.

    Ever seen Platoon?
    At points in your life you have to decide whether you’re going to side with Elias or Barnes.
    I think Elias would remove Wahoo.
    Not sure whether he would date Bailey or Jennifer though. Probably both.

    Maybe both at the same time? Elias I could see doing that.

    For me, I am as politically conservative as anyone but for me it is more about finances. Social issues are a separate thing. I don’t see it as a PC move but simply recognizing that if people, Native Americans, don’t like it that we should respect that. I am not against removing all Native American mascots. I am for doing them the correct way. Work with the tribe, if you use a tribal name, and get approval from them such as Florida State has (and let’s hope the new Tom Cruise getting a BJ logo isn’t their new logo, it is horrible).

    May 31, 2009, Texas v. Boston College in the Austin Regional. 25 innings, 7 hours +

    FIFA and Sony announce their plans for taping select games in 4K aka Ultra-High Definition TV. link

    Remember, it is the main reason FIFA mandated teams where monochrome kits. FIFA wanted to simplify the code transfer.

    A Guardian article from a few days ago stated that the mono-chrome was to help the refs. If they want to help the refs, tell the players to wear boots the same color as their socks, instead of all the day-glo shoes they’ve been wearing, though I suppose mono-chrome kits MIGHT help with offside calls.


    Whatever the justification, I wish FIFA would stop messing with kits.

    I have my doubts about all of the various explanations being given. On the point raised in that Guardian article for instance, it doesn’t make much sense to me as referees have always had the final say on match day kit combinations anyway. In this context, while it may make some sense that FIFA would ensure that teams have the option of monochrome, it seems unnecessary to compel them to make monochrome their primary kit.

    As for the tv explanation, I really, really don’t understand this one iota. Isn’t the point of HDtv that it allows for a richer picture, hence why each new evolution of tv technology is usually shown off with ultra colourful nature scenes? To say that the best way of viewing the ultra rich image is to make that image as simple as possible seems like saying that the best way to utilise a Waterford Crystal vase is by never putting any flowers in it.

    Between conflicting reasons swirling around for the monochrome, the above stated logical fallacies for the individual reasons, the fact that I haven’t seen a single real source cited in conjunction with any of the various reasons and also the fact that this is nowhere near being universally adhered to makes me extremely dubious that this isn’t much more than a great big game of Chinese whispers.

    Longest game I went to was April 17, 2010 at Busch Stadium. A 20 inning affair won by the Mets 2-1. 20 innings and 3 freaking runs. Officially 6:53 but considering we got there an hour before, I experienced 7:53 or thereabouts. Sad thing is it was 0-0 until the 19th. Both teams scoring a run in the 19th and then the Mets scoring the winner in the top of the 20th. Second saddest thing is beer sales were shutdown after the 7th. 13 freaking innings with no beer. That is a travesty.

    That has to be one of the cruelest jokes about marathon games: beer sales (and other concessions, I assume) are closed hours before the end of the game.

    Yesterday, the Sox even shut off the water fountains before the game ended! If you wanted a drink, you were out of luck.

    Yeah, they shutdown everything as they normally do during a 9 inning game. A lot of potential revenue lost.

    From Red Sox announcement about Opening Day tomorrow:

    “In honor of the 2013 championship, players will wear special gold-trimmed Red Sox jerseys with gold stitching around the World Series Championship patch on the left sleeve, and around the letters and numbers on the front and back of the jersey. “

    Longest game ever!

    A few years ago I was a tournament director for a youth baseball organization. Once a year, we held a Memorial Day tournament which also served as our largest fund raiser. It had become a very popular tournament and attracted over 100 teams.

    This particular year we had over 30 teams in the 14 year old group, so getting to the Sunday championship game was a big feat. The first pitch occurred at about 7:00 Sunday evening. It’s important to note that since I was the tournament director I was required to be at the park until the last person left the facility.

    At midnight that night the game was tied 7-7 in the 16th inning. I was tired, cold (it was unseasonably cool that weekend) and just wanted to go home….as were most of the fans (parents).

    After the 22nd inning the umpire came to me with an idea to end the game. Long story short(er), the game ended in the 23rd inning much to the joy of many adults.

    Fortunately, the following Monday was Memorial Day, so a lot of those in attendance were off from work, which probably kept them from rioting.

    In the end the game went a little over 7 and a half hours. That was the last year I volunteered my services. :)

    Longest Game Attended – Game 4 Stanley Cup Western Conference Semi-finals Detroit Red Wings at Mighty Ducks of Anaheim.

    This series clinching game was won by the Red Wings in the third overtime. Sure, that’s not the longest overtime by any stretch, but it was personally memorable because it pre-dated my drivers license and cell phones:

    I was not yet of driving age, so my parents planned to pick me up outside of the Pond after the game. I had to go to a pay phone after regulation, drop a quarter and tell them that it would was going to OT. They were a bit peeved as it was already late and I had a chemistry mid-term the next morning. One hour later, I had to borrow a quarter to say that it was going to the second OT. My dad said to come home due to the mid-term. I said I’m not leaving ’cause it’s playoff hockey! One hour later I had to beg for another quarter to call and let them know that it was going to a third overtime period. They were none to happy as it was past midnight. The game was lost (I’m a Ducks fan) in 3OT and a nice usher game me my final quarter to call them to pick me up. I didn’t get home until 1:30ish.

    I’m happy to say that I got an A on that chem test.

    Oh pay phones. I used them as late as 2004. I’m surprised your parents didn’t consider overtime hockey when they let you go to the game.

    Ha. At the time, my parents weren’t the most knowledgeable of hockey fans as their main experience was my own youth and high school hockey games which didn’t have endless overtimes.

    Also, this was the Ducks first ever playoff run.

    I was in college on the East Coast in 2003 when the Ducks had their epic 5OT win over the Dallas Starts. I stayed up watching the whole thing which ended around 2am Eastern if I recall correctly. The 8am class was a bit rough.

    Earlier today (on my lunch) I squeezed in the lede and ticker and right now I am in between bedtime stuff with my 2 kids (why do I need to explain myself???…oh yeah, the negative internet trolls will get ya that’s why!)
    Anyways, I have a question..
    Are the Seminoles altering their logo for income purposes$? or because of the Wahoo/Redskin rage?
    I hope this question doesn’t wake the trolls..sleeeeeeeeep

    February 14, 1975 (ABA): San Diego Conquistadors 176, New York Nets 166 in four overtimes. Ironically, the only pro basketball game I’ve ever attended. Can’t find a box score online, but here’s a link to a newspaper article: link

    Interesting reason from the school as to the change in the FSU logo:

    “The issue was that our Seminole Head, while as recognizable and iconic as any in all of sports, does not reproduce well in a number of mediums. It is particularly difficult to embroider and impossible to accurately represent on some materials including at midfield at Doak Campbell Stadium.”


    Hello – this is in response to the De-Chiefing feature. I couldn’t pick a specific comment to post this after, so I’ll just put it here. Thought I’d post a piece on a recent study done that shows the damaging effects Native Logos/Mascotry have on Native Americans. Specifically, this was done at high schools and colleges link

    This Fryberg study also emphasized how few positive NA representations there are in the media. Imagine growing up, and seeing mostly stereotypical representations of yourself? Here’s a quick excerpt from that part of the study:

    “In a content analysis of national newspapers in 1997 and major films from 1999 to 2000, relatively few, 0.2 percent, of representations of American Indians were found,” she said. “The representations that were there were largely stereotypic and negative, and American Indians were seldom presented as contemporary people or in contemporary domains.”

    – – –
    It’s not a long article, either. Although, I’d still link it, if it were.
    I’m not Native American, but, I’ve met many who are through some of the social media campaigns to get rid of offensive mascotry, and they are concerned about their children growing up in a world where these things exist. Like Wahoo. There is also a very high suicide rate with Native youth (don’t have the figure with me, but it is disproportionately higher than that of many other groups). So, it’s a mental health advocacy issue, too.
    Actually, here’s a link on the mental health side: link
    The response I can imagine for this would be that there are a whole slew of problems they face, so “what is a logo or name?” would be probably common (as it is on twitter). I’d say why not at least make things easier, and start somewhere? With the Fryberg study existing and other studies around, it’s definitely a place to start.
    Also, while I didn’t intend to say this much, it looks as though I did. It’s just important. Baseball is awesome, but compassion is even more awesome.

    To Paul: Thanks so much for covering this, and for the ESPN feature. I passed it onto friends.

    I know I’m late to this today, but I thought I’d add my two cents.

    I’ve been to at least two games that have a 14th inning stretch, but this one I remember the date of. On September 30, 2006, I watched the Cubs blow it after overcoming an eight-run deficit. That’s not why it stands out, though. In addition to a 14 inning game, there was also a 40-45 minute rain delay, during which one of the members of our group, a meteorologist, was making calls and keeping track of the weather on a pre-smart phone radar screen. You had to love the Cubs to make it through that game, which we did.

    And then we lost.

    Longest game I’ve attended was an 18-inning 1-0 Giants loss to the Diamondbacks in San Francisco, 5 hrs 53 minutes. Ryan Vogelsong was the hard-luck loser giving up the only run to Steve Finley. Vogelsong actually led off the bottom of the 18th with a double (his first MLB hit) but the heavy bats of Bonds & Santiago couldn’t bring him home. The game ended a few minutes after 1AM and I stayed for all 18 games. There were a few hundred fans left at the end.

    The longest game I believe I have ever attended was a 14-inning Cubs vs Padres game at Wrigley on 4/17/07. It was memorable for a few reasons: Maddux started the game for the Cubs and it was Felix Pie’s MLB debut (another supposed to be the-next-big-thing.) It was freezing; I had to pony up for a winter hat from the team store. About once a year or so I’ll fly solo to a cheap game and get a great seat (this was a Tuesday afternoon game in April.) I stayed through its entirety and by the end of the game when the crowd had thinned you could clearly see me behind home plate – the only time I can recall seeing myself on a SportsCenter highlight.

    My longest day though not one continuous game, but two games. I once caught a White Sox weekday afternoon game. When I was leaving I had remembered that the Cubs were playing at home that night – a rarity that both teams would be in town on the same date. So, I got on the Red Line at 35th, headed north, got off at Addison and scalped a ticket to the Cubs game. A day/night, 2 stadium double header. Still to this day one of my proudest accomplishments!

    Also, as a UCF alum, I think the Citronaut logo was fantastic, a product of the late-sixties time frame. The campus is less than an hour away from NASA, so the space theme was a natural fit. Too bad it was scrubbed (like every shuttle launch I ever drove to Cocoa Beach to see live…)

    The question is, can there ever be a non-insensitive portrayal of a Native American? Not trolling, but would Chief Wahoo be more welcome if he wasn’t red? Florida State ironically has a logo modeled after a caucasian man dressed as a native, yet the Seminole tribe signs off on it, could it be because it is colorless? I really find it fascinating.

    If the Indians aligned themselves with a tribe and modeled the logo after a past chief, would things be different?

    Longest game I ever attended was a 15-inning Giants-A’s game in 1999 (the Giants’ final year at Candlestick): link

    I was 11, so I don’t remember all of the details, but I do remember sticking around to watch the postgame fireworks. According to the article, the A’s used a 5-man infield with the bases loaded in the 15th.

    Early in the summer of 1996, my family went on a trip to Chicago (I was a rising Senior in HS and we were visiting the Univ. of Illinois on our way home). I made my first trip to Wrigley field on June 13, 1996, and the Padres and Cubs went 14 innings that night. I distinctly remember Ken Caminiti cracking his bat over his knee after a strikeout (and looking like he’d almost do it again after a later strikeout). Harry Caray came out and sang “Take Me Out to the Ballgame” for the 14th Inning Stretch.

    We were leaving the next morning and my dad didn’t want us to be out too late, but my Mom, my brothers, and I were all insisting that we stay ’till the end. After the middle of the 14th, my dad made us make our way toward the exit. Fortunately, my dad let us slowly make our way out, so I got to see Terry Shumpert’s walk-off HR from the tunnel on the lower level.


    I’m no longer certain the spot you are helping your data, nevertheless terrific topic. I can invest some time understanding more or understanding far more. Thanks for amazing information I used to be hunting for this data for my goal.

Comments are closed.