Busch League: St. Louis Party Report

st looey.jpg

One very hectic week later, and with apologies for the delay, here’s the full rundown on the St. Looey shindig. This was one of the best Uni Watch gatherings ever, with a big turnout, tons of great people, and a unique setting at the Corner Bar and Grill in St. Charles. Here are some of the very friendly folks who were in attendance:

• Here’s our host, Jason Bibb, who co-owns the bar with his sister, Libby. They were both super-friendly, super-accommodating folks.

• I really liked Shaun Kennedy’s Twitter-Cards T-shirt. (Shaun and Tony Pellegrino pulled me aside for a few minutes to interview me for their excellent Cardinals Diaspora blog, but they haven’t posted the transcript yet. I’ll post a link once they put it up.)

• Even better: Gary Streeting’s “What the fuck are YOU looking at?” Cards tee.

James Poisso wore an awesome Tampa Smokers jersey, plus he tried to butter me up with his choice of undershirt. (As an aside, I’m told that the Rays will be wearing Smokers uniforms for a throwback game later this season!)

• Here’s Kurt Keller in a “victory blue” Cards T-shirt. I asked him about the sticker, and he simply replied, “Logo creep.”

• Here’s the pride of St. Louis, Marty Hick, and his lovely wife, Holly, both of whom are teachers in the St. Louis public school system. I stayed with them for my last two nights in town — awesome, awesome people.

• Who would be crazy enough to drive clear across Missouri for a Uni Watch party? Robert Marshall, that’s who. He made the drive from KC, plus he had a little bit of Baltimore in the form of his tie clip. As usual, he was the life of the party.

• Another guy who went the extra mile, literally, in order to attend: Ben Traxel, who drove up from Poplar Bluff. “The stirrups were given to me by the assistant baseball coach at Three Rivers College in Poplar Bluff,” he says. “The team started going high-cuffed on the road this year (but not at home, where they still wear jammy pants). The jersey was bought at Goodwill for $3 and already had the name and number screened on. I bought the A’s elephant patch on eBay and made the KC sleeve patch myself. I gave it to Marshall as a Missouri-warming gift and he brought it for me to wear at the party. I gave it back to him that night!”

• Ben brought along his co-worker Aaron Duncan, who wore a mish-mash of uni elements: Cards jersey, Browns stirrups, Ditka tee, and — get this — a Winnipeg Goldeyes cap.

Jeff Taylor was super-friendly right from the moment I walked in the door, plus he looked sharp in his St. Louis Browns jersey and cap.

• Accompanying Jeff was his cousin, Jay Taylor, who was sporting the rarely seen double-decker NOB.

• One of the real treats of the party for me was getting to meet Bill Garbe, who works in the art department at Rawlings. He brought a bunch of old Rawlings catalogs and was nice enough to let me photograph them. (That sound you just heard was Mike Hersh drooling).

• Bill’s cousin, Mike Whalen, wore a game-used Rick Zombo Blues jersey, which included an interesting detail: Until now, I hadn’t realized that the “St. Louis” on the front crest was embroidered onto a separate strip of fabric.

• We all owe a debt of thanks to Kevin Henderson, because he’s the one who suggested the Corner Bar as our party venue. Since it was Cinco de Mayo, he wore a Mexican soccer jersey, which he had actually purchased in Mexico.

Jonathan Karberg wore a beautiful old flannel jersey that he said had belonged to his grandfather or something like that. It’s hard to see in the rear-view photo, but some other attendees and I spotted some ghost lettering on the back, which Jonathan said he’d never noticed before.

• My apologies to Nick Werner, who I somehow neglected to photograph. He was wearing a 1998 game-worn Tom Pagnozzi Cards jersey, and we had fun discussing how the birds on the bat had red beaks that year, not yellow beaks.

• As for me, I wore an old softball jersey with SRDNOB (some roofer dude’s name on back), which I recently scored on Etsy for $18.

And then there was the cocked hat bowling. As you can see from those pics, there are three only pins, and the idea is to knock the headpin into one corner pin and have the ball deflect into the other corner pin — even trickier than it sounds. Marshall, of course, was very good at it (he’s really good at just about anything sporty and competitive), and everyone else, myself included, was pretty much hit-or-miss.

Here’s some video of the women’s league that was on the lanes before we started bowling (it’s a little loud, so you may want to turn down your volume):

As for the rest of the trip, it was a blast. Here are some highlights:

The food: I ate really well on this trip, and not just because my hotel was next door to a Waffle House (the only chain eatery I like). When I had a few hours to kill one afternoon, I visited the very wonderful Crown Candy Kitchen. It had been 10 years since I’d last been there, but the booths and the hand-painted menu and mirrors were just like I remembered them. So was the hot fudge/caramel sundae I had. Mmmmmmm.

The next day, Robert Marshall, Marty Hick, and I had a sensational barbecue lunch at Bogart’s Smokehouse. We started out with a simple ribs and pulled pork combo, but then the owner took a shine to us once he realized I’m friends with some of his ’cue pals here in NYC, so he started bringing out all sorts of meaty treats for us to sample. No additional photos, but it was first-rate ’cue.

Marty hosted a big-ass cookout on Saturday. It was Kentucky Derby day, so I contributed a Derby Pie. Alas, I was too busy eating pork steaks and side dishes to take any photos of the event.

The fine sporting activity: Marty and a bunch of his friends have developed a fairly intense croquet scene at a local park, and I was invited to participate. As you can see in these photos (the first 10 of which were taken by Marty’s friend Andy Holman), Marty and his crew adhere to some very strict uniform protocols: Everyone wears beige Chucks and khakis, and your shirt color, ball color, and mallet color all have to match (plus I took the additional liberty of going high-cuffed, which Marty said was permissible). The shirts are all thrifted and the mallets were actually DIY’d by Marty’s pal Adam, who’s a carpenter — all very cool.

The animals: Marty and Holly have three cats and two dogs, all of which are amazing. Shame on me for not getting photos of them, but Andy Holman got some pics of Adam the greyhound and Cappy the cat. When we gathered around Marty’s TV for the Kentucky Derby and watched as the race was won by a horse named Animal Kingdom, it seemed very appropriate.

The appliance with the really unfortunate logo: Marty and Holly have a combination vacuum/steam cleaner called the Vac Then Steam. First of all, that’s a really awkward name — shouldn’t it be Vac & Steam, or Vac ’n’ Steam? Even worse, it has a logo that’s easily misinterpreted in a rather gross way unless you’re looking at it right up close. I mentioned this during Marty’s cookout, at which point his buddy Adam quipped, in his best Missouri deadpan drawl, “Sounds like a mighty big gadget just to clean yer cooter.” And that’s the part where I spit out my beer.

The reason I was there in the first place: Can’t tell you about that yet. But it’ll end up as an ESPN column in a few weeks.

And there you are — a really fun, productive trip. Thanks for letting me play show-and-tell.

+ + + + +

ESPN reminder: In case you missed it yesterday afternoon, my latest ESPN column — which tells the inside story on how the Mets added black throughout their graphics program in the late 1990s — is here.

Uni Watch News Ticker: Uni number news for the 49ers (with thanks to Terry O’Donohue). ”¦ Congrats to Micah Hudgens, who got married yesterday — and wore these under his pants. ”¦ Kyle Napiontek spotted a Mississippi State softball player wearing an Under Armour wristband with her Adidas uniform. ”¦ Brandon Acee sent along two sets of old NFL-themed Sears catalog pages — one batch from the early ’70s and one from 1987. ”¦ Mike Hersh was at a flea market on Wednesday when one of the dealers said to him, “Hey, do you know anything about jerseys and uniforms? I have this old Dodgers uniform, but I don’t think it’s real because it’s not the usual fabric you see jerseys made of. This one’s shiny.” What the guy had — and what Mike got to fondle and photograph — was a Dodgers satin uni. As you can see, it’s not the baby blue design that’s the basis for this years throwbacks, but rather the more infrequently seen royal satins (which are not shown in Okkonen but are definitely out there). Interestingly, the tagging indicates that the jersey and pants were originally issued to different players — the jersey to pitcher Art Herring and the pants to John Corriden, whose entire big league career consisted of a 1946 pinch-running appearance. Mike says this mis-matching is common for old Dodgers satin sets, because the Dodgers tended to recycle the pants due to the satins’ high price point. ”¦ Shaun Tunick notes that Jim Riggleman appears to be wearing two-in-ones.

195 comments to Busch League: St. Louis Party Report

  • scott | May 13, 2011 at 8:14 am |

    Does Okkonen show the royal blue Dodgers satin jersey in the chapter on the history of the team’s uniforms? Just because it’s not shown in the year-by-year portion doesn’t mean it’s not depicted somewhere in his book.

  • Mike Hersh | May 13, 2011 at 8:19 am |

    The dealer said to me, “I don’t think it’s real because it’s not the usual fabric you see jerseys made of. This one’s shiny.”

    When he pulled it out of a box under his table I nearly shit myself. I tried everything to buy it from him, but he didn’t want to sell it.

    Part of me wishes I never saw it.

    • Bruce Menard | May 13, 2011 at 8:58 am |

      There, I feel better now.

    • Jet | May 13, 2011 at 10:39 am |

      yeah, how do you remain calm and nonchalant in a situation like that?! You try to say, “yeah, it doesn’t look real, probably not worth much… ya want $25 for it, take it off your hands?…” when INSIDE your head is about to explode!!!


      • JTH | May 13, 2011 at 10:44 am |

        Kinda like Al (owner of the eponymous Toy Barn) in “Toy Story 2″…

  • Mike Hersh | May 13, 2011 at 8:21 am |

    In case your interested, this is Art Herring possibly wearing the satin uni I saw.


    • LI Phil | May 13, 2011 at 8:35 am |

      so maybe i was correct when i asked george chilvers colorize a version of that in the darker blue?

      great find mike!

  • Daren L | May 13, 2011 at 8:28 am |

    Regarding the NFL-themed Sears catalog page from the early ’70s: The one labeled as “1972 sleepwear” shows the Cincinnati Bengals product with their Bengal-striped helmet. That didn’t come out until 1981.

    • Craig D | May 13, 2011 at 8:52 am |

      Quick, someone find the dates of birth for Joe Theismann’s kids. That will date those catalogs! By “someone” I mean “not me”.

      • moose | May 13, 2011 at 10:58 am |

        it’s the 80’s. off the top of my head…isn’t that a tommy krammer vikings jersey? joe montana niners? dan fouts royal chargers? marcus allen raiders? billy simms lions? randy gradishar broncos? john jefferson packers? and i have no idear who that dolphin is, it can’t be duriel harris can it? but you can tell by the styles in all the pages, and just the colour in the pixtures that that isn’t 1972, but more likely 1982ish. still love the wishbook pixtures none the less.

        • JTH | May 13, 2011 at 11:09 am |

          Tony Dorsett Cowboys, Terry Bradshaw Steelers, Ken Anderson Bengals, Ron Jaworski Eagles, Richard Todd Jets…

          I was thinking one of the “Marks Brothers” for the Dolphins shirt but that’s wrong. Clayton and Duper wore 83 & 85 (can’t remember which was which).

        • moose | May 13, 2011 at 1:03 pm |

          the only reason i even thought of harris is that i remember my brother and i every year would try and figure out who the new players were, and there was always one or two that were who? or teams without stars that would pick some random rookie. anyway, i just seem to remember that. if i saw a couple more pages from other years, i might be able to pick out the alfred jenkins or whomever.

    • J C P | May 13, 2011 at 2:16 pm |

      The year is 83. Theismann is listed as being on the “Superbowl Champion” Washington Redskins. As a lifelong Washingtonian and Skins fan I can assure you Joey T’s only SB win is SB XVII (82 season, February 83).

  • Chris H | May 13, 2011 at 8:29 am |

    That first NFL sears catalog link can’t be from 1972. The magnetic divisional standings board on one of the pages includes the Bucs. Tampa didn’t enter the league until 1976. Also, they show #16 49ers jersey. My guess is that’s Joe Montana, who was drafted in the late 70’s.

    • Brinke | May 13, 2011 at 10:36 am |

      also shows early 80’s Bengals pumpkin helmet

    • Huddles_Freak | May 13, 2011 at 2:25 pm |

      It’s not. The NFL Huddles didn’t come out till 82 or 83.

  • jdreyfuss | May 13, 2011 at 8:32 am |

    If RPM were truly a traditionalist he would have worn a lampshade on his head. How else would we know he was the life of the party?

    • Ry Co 40 | May 13, 2011 at 9:22 am |

      if there’s one guy on this earth that i HAVE to meet…

    • JamesP. | May 13, 2011 at 10:10 am |

      He wore a tie w/ clip and rolled his own smokes. No lampshade needed to tell who he was…

    • moose | May 13, 2011 at 11:05 am |

      paul exaggerates, i was too busy drinking stag and focusing on the ducks to be much fun. and i think jack youngblood, who gave me something green to drink, and satchel paige were the real life of the party, those cats are nuts.

      • JamesP. | May 13, 2011 at 11:15 am |

        Satch and Youngblood were cool guys…anyone who wears anything Browns here in StL is a good person in my book!

        Youngblood I had to watch out for…didn’t know if he was going to sack anyone… ;-)

        • moose | May 13, 2011 at 1:08 pm |

          like i said, green drink, i did get sacked.

  • Broadway Connie | May 13, 2011 at 8:37 am |

    Wonderful to see the UW family album, Heartland Division. Eveybody looks cool. Careful with your “frat boy” denouncements, Paul: you got a fraternity on your hans, and i’s all your fault.

    Moose is scary, thank God, what with the beard, the tie, the glove, the finger.

  • Ryan | May 13, 2011 at 8:40 am |

    Did Mike happen to mention how much that jersey was going for? That thing’s freaking sweet.

    • Mike Hersh | May 13, 2011 at 8:50 am |

      The jersey wasn’t being offered for sale. He had it under his table in a box. He happened to over hear a conversation I was having with a co-worker about a game worn hockey jersey another vendor had. Believe me, I tried everything in my arsenal to buy that uniform. He just didn’t want to sell it. I eventually told him the whole story behind it. Both the dealer and his wife thanked me and put it right back in the box. At least he gave my co-worker a nice discount of a photograph he bought.

      • Bruce Menard | May 13, 2011 at 9:01 am |

        They should have thanked you…bought you dinner…payed for your gas…etc, etc, etc. Wow, they really had no idea what they had!

        • Mike Hersh | May 13, 2011 at 9:08 am |

          Clueless. He told me the guy he got it from used to wear it at Halloween.

        • LI Phil | May 13, 2011 at 9:16 am |

          “the guy he got it from used to wear it at Halloween.”


          you should have jumped him, pinched the uni and left him a couple hundy for the effort

          he’d have thought he made out in the deal

          was the guy wearing that on hallowe’en jim vilk by any chance?

        • Chris Holder | May 13, 2011 at 9:58 am |

          “…and left him a couple hundy for the effort”

          So wait… we don’t want no stinkin’ $200 polyester shirts, but just so I’m clear, $200 satin shirts are just fine? Just making sure :)

          FWIW, it’s definitely an awesome find.

        • LI Phil | May 13, 2011 at 10:25 am |

          “…we don’t want no stinkin’ $200 polyester shirts.”


          that is correct

        • moose | May 13, 2011 at 11:11 am |

          this is a crazy story, i’m loving these threads. how do you have something like that and just have no clue? and if you have no clue, how do you not just sell it? was he playing dumb just so you would think you were getting deals?

  • Glenn | May 13, 2011 at 8:46 am |

    I think most of those Sears scans weren’t from ’72. The Bengals helmet has stripes and the “Huddles” characters didn’t come into being until the 80’s.

    • The Jeff | May 13, 2011 at 8:54 am |

      I think we have to assume typo and call it ’82.

      Everything fits then.

      • LI Phil | May 13, 2011 at 9:06 am |

        thanks, THE…now i have “Heat of the Moment” stuck in my brain~pan

        and that’s not a good thing

        • The Jeff | May 13, 2011 at 9:20 am |

          I would apologize since it wasn’t really intentional, but tormenting you is fun…so… Good!

  • Eric Wright | May 13, 2011 at 8:52 am |

    i’m in agreement w/ some of the others who’ve posted replies about the Sears catalog pages from the “70’s” – it’s just not possible if you look at the Bengals logo, and the uniform numbers of some of the players’ jerseys. it easily has to be the early 80’s.

    • Rob H. | May 13, 2011 at 10:56 am |

      The page with Theismann and the three kids says “Quarterback of the Super Bowl champion Washington Redskins” — sounds like current champion to me, Super Bowl XVII was January 1983, so I’m going with 1983 catalog.

  • Payton | May 13, 2011 at 8:59 am |

    I must own that St. Louis Twitter shirt. Where can I buy one?

    • shaun | May 13, 2011 at 2:10 pm |

      A guy on Twitter makes them, and they’re pretty cheap.

      Here’s the Google Docs link. Fill it out and send him the money via Pay Pal and it’ll show up in a couple of days..

      I ordered mine last summer, and I’m not sure if he’s expanded to red or blue shirts, so it might not hurt to ask (if you’d like something other than white or gray).


  • Jim Hayden | May 13, 2011 at 8:59 am |

    And Joe Theismann was still speaking Canadian in 1972…

    (I’m thinking we can just ignore the random file names)

  • pru | May 13, 2011 at 9:06 am |

    “Kyle Napiontek spotted a Mississippi State softball player wearing an Under Armour wristband with HIS Adidas uniform.”

    I believe that softball player is more a HER.

    • Paul Lukas | May 13, 2011 at 9:09 am |

      I swear I remember typing “her.” But I guess I didn’t.

      Anyway, now fixed. Thanks.

  • MPowers1634 | May 13, 2011 at 9:26 am |

    St. Louis looked to be a great time!

    Too bad, noone wore the Cardinals “Cam” shirt to the party:


  • Ryebread19 | May 13, 2011 at 9:30 am |

    I don’t know if this got posted yet, but i haven’t seen it in the ticker so here you go:


    • Ry Co 40 | May 13, 2011 at 9:38 am |

      LOL. saw that when i logged on to Shaun and Tony’s blog this morning. had a real “oh geez” moment (for the hat design, not the excellent blog)

    • JamesP. | May 13, 2011 at 9:44 am |

      Wow! Could that shade of red be any brighter?!?

      Ugh! If it were just a little darker it wouldn’t hurt the eyes. As for the blue caps, they could have used a lighter shade of blue other than navy so they didn’t almost look black…

    • talkendo | May 13, 2011 at 10:41 am |

      Wow. Those caps are, collectively, a disaster.
      “Lets put a half/half waving flag on ALL the logos!”

      The Marlins is EXCEPTIONALLY awful.

      But at least they apparently didn’t use Chief Wahoo. Which would have been wrong, to say the least.

    • Ricko | May 13, 2011 at 11:53 am |

      As noted here before, Ballpark Patriotism has become a kind of cottage industry inside the greater industry of MLB marketing.

      And it’s like Coke machine rolling down a ramp. Stopping it is gonna be a little tough.

      • talkendo | May 13, 2011 at 3:09 pm |

        I wouldn’t mind the Ballpark Patriotism so much if there were a little thought put into it. They picked red teams and blue teams out of a hat at random and then applied the SAME EXACT treatment to every logo.

        Look, I’m not a designer, I just know a little bit of image manipulating and how to put somethings together, but I just did a White Sox flag logo that looks about 30x better than that and it only took 30 minutes (minus the time it took to prepare an editable file, since they’d have had one to begin with). So, 30 minutes, times 29 teams works out to 36.25 hours. Or a solid work week. This? This? 20 minutes, tops.


        The work put into it shows NO thought about the look of the logo, the appearance of the treatment on the logo, the team’s history or colors. In fact, I’m completely shocked that they remembered Toronto is in Canada and thus doesn’t NEED a StarsnStripes cap. Seriously, LOOK at that Marlins cap! Mein gott in himmel! Now, there’s probably no good way to turn that into a StarsnStripes logo, but again, if there were ANY thought put into this, they’d have figured that out.

        Ugh. I’m done.

    • Jim Hayden | May 13, 2011 at 12:46 pm |

      Ya’ know – those tasty homemade crabcakes I just had for lunch weren’t quite as tasty when I vomited in my mouth…

    • FormerDirtDart | May 13, 2011 at 5:53 pm |

      And why in the hell would the Giants, Pirates, and Rockies go with the “red” caps?

  • Ry Co 40 | May 13, 2011 at 9:30 am |

    that trip looks like it was a blast, thanks for sharing!

  • JamesP. | May 13, 2011 at 9:36 am |

    Paul, again, it was an awesome time to be had! Hopefully it won’y be another 3yrs before you come back. It was great to meet some if those who showed up, and I got to drink a cold bottle of Stag and talk stirrups with Comrade Marshall.

    I had expected to see the shot of my mystery 1920’s era stirrups, but thinking about the pose I gave, it was probably for the best.

    As for the gosted text on the back of that awesome jersey, it looked like it used to say “GOOD FOOD & ICE CREAM”.

    • moose | May 13, 2011 at 11:20 am |

      that fits, del marre sounds like a company that would make toasted almond bars, and tutti-fruiti pops. it was a great jersey.

      • JamesP. | May 13, 2011 at 1:34 pm |

        Apparently, there was a Del Marre Restaurant in Oak Park, IL at one time…wonder if that is the same place…

        • Jonathan | May 13, 2011 at 2:09 pm |

          thanks. that sounds like it would fit – location with the ghosted text. i thought that del marre might have been a catholic church or something, but he wasn’t catholic then, as far as i know. i never noticed the back of the jersey because of all the other nuanced parts of the jersey and even pants. paul noticed that there was a belt loop hole dead center on the pants which probably made the players in that day wear their belts off centered on purpose.

        • JamesP. | May 13, 2011 at 2:42 pm |

          Jonathan – thanks for bringing that uniform. It was one of the things that really stuck with me after I left.

          That and going on something RPM said about my mystery stirrups could have been Hershey Bears related…

          Side note: I am not a hockey fan of any kind, so does anyone know if stirrups might have been worn by a hockey team back in the 1920s-30s?

        • Jonathan | May 13, 2011 at 6:29 pm |

          where did you find that del marre was from oak park, il?

  • JTH | May 13, 2011 at 9:54 am |

    “…the idea is to knock the headpin into one corner pin and have the ball deflect into the other corner pin – trickier than it sounds.”
    Really? Because that sounds pretty fucking tricky.

    • Paul Lukas | May 13, 2011 at 10:08 am |

      Meant to write “EVEN trickier than it sounds.” Will add that now.

      • Aaron | May 13, 2011 at 10:30 am |

        Paul, if you want to keep going to odd bowling alleys, plus get a UniWatch party I could make it to, there’s duckpin bowling to be had in Indy.


        • Soobie23 | May 13, 2011 at 7:56 pm |


  • JTH | May 13, 2011 at 10:25 am |

    Oh, wow. I just got to the stuff about the Mike Hersh satin Dodgers uni incident.

    Phil’s right, Mike. You should have jacked that flea marketeer as a public service. Really, it would have been the humane thing to do.

  • MN | May 13, 2011 at 10:29 am |

    Paul- Noticed that you peeled the label off of your beer, trying to eliminate logo creep ;)Looks like a great time, I have to make the next NYC gathering.

    • Paul Lukas | May 13, 2011 at 10:32 am |

      I’ve been habitually peeling the labels off my beer bottles for decades now — just an OCD habit, sort of like picking a scab….

      • MN | May 13, 2011 at 10:39 am |

        Gotcha! I do it all the time and dont even realize it. Great read on the BFBS Mets.

    • Ricko | May 13, 2011 at 10:41 am |

      Couldn’t help notice most of the high-cuff blousers in St. Louis really could use these…
      …to avoid the literal “cuffing”.
      Easy to use, not exactly expensive.

      What the hell, your pants are gonna get wrinkled either way, might as well go with the always intriguing veritcal wrinkling present when you take off your rubbers…so to speak. :)

      • Ricko | May 13, 2011 at 10:44 am |

        And (attention, Ben T.) you can use them to easily convert even the most ghastly or elegant of slacks (perhaps from Goodwill and such?) to equally ghastly or elegant Plus-Fours for the golf course.

        • Jim Hayden | May 13, 2011 at 12:49 pm |

          Trouser-blousers – the bane of many a military wife’s existence…

      • JamesP. | May 13, 2011 at 10:59 am |

        Robert and I were talking about these very same things at the gathering!

        I do need to see if my dad still has his from his Army days.

        • Ricko | May 13, 2011 at 11:06 am |

          Any military surplus store should have them…if such retail outlets are even still around.

          Little bitty bungee cords with a hook on either end is all blousing rubbers are. So if you have larger calves, just buy multiple pairs and string ’em together.

  • Johnny O | May 13, 2011 at 10:30 am |

    My wife and I visited Crown Candy Kitchen last summer when we were in town for a Brewers/Cards game. I am not embellishing when I say that it was easily the best ice cream I have ever had in my life. If I am not mistaken, the establishment is about 100 years old, and started by Greek immigrants.

    • JTH | May 13, 2011 at 10:36 am |

      That place was on “Man v. Food” I believe.

      If memory serves, it was a milkshake challenge and Food won on that episode (and it ended badly).

      • MN | May 13, 2011 at 10:40 am |

        Really badly! The host is a big fan (no fun intended) of No-Mas T’s as well.

      • JamesP. | May 13, 2011 at 11:03 am |

        Yes, it was 1st season of MvF. I have tried to go there many times with no success thanks to the number of people also trying to get in.

  • joe | May 13, 2011 at 10:50 am |

    So my question for Paul (and anyone else) regarding the black in the Mets unis is: at what point is black just part of the Mets color scheme? Like it or not, the Mets have been pretty consistent with their incorporation of black for over 10 years. A whole generation of young fans think of them as blue, orange and black. How many years do you think it takes before it just is the way it is (no matter what the reasons it started). To me, it kinda seems like we are at that point.

    • The Jeff | May 13, 2011 at 11:02 am |

      The Mets have been a blue, orange and black team since 1998, regardless of how much certain people don’t like it.

      There should probably be 2 different terms instead of just lumping it all together as BFBS. The Mets added black to their color scheme. The A’s went BFBS, wearing a black jersey for essentially no reason and without incorporating black into anything else.

      • LI Phil | May 13, 2011 at 12:00 pm |

        the mets are the very epitome of BFBS, at least as it is defined in the Uni Watch Glossary:

        BFBS: Stands for “black for black’s sake,” a reference to teams that gratuitously add black to their uniform design even though black was never one of their team colors.”

        the a’s are also clearly BFBS

        there is no “separate” category — either you’re BFBS or you’re not — even if you want to consider black to be an “official” team color, its use was still the very definition of the acronym

        • Ricko | May 13, 2011 at 12:26 pm |

          Should that definition also maybe include something like “for purposes of adding a black garment or garments”?

          The dropshow on the Mets lettering isn’t all that evil, just an incidental graphic element/tool used to set the letters, visually, up and apart from the background (like the Wisconsin “W” in that respect).

          Adding a bit of black as a trim color isn’t nearly as blatantly about BFBS marketing (or “We’re tough” posturing) as adding a black jersey, hat, etc., it seems to me, anyway.

        • The Jeff | May 13, 2011 at 12:30 pm |

          Whatever Phil. It’s a term created here. That official meaning can always be changed, especially since we’re the only people that even use it.

          Whether Paul wants to define it differently or not, there is a philosophical difference between wearing black just because it’s “cool”(A’s, tons of NCAA teams), adding black to an existing scheme (Mets), or completely changing the scheme to include black(White Sox, 90’s Pistons, Eagles).

          I think we can all agree that the first example is far worse than the other two.

          Unless of course teams are never, ever allowed to switch their colors… which means that, for example, the Packers are green for green sake, since they did start in blue, after all.

        • JTH | May 13, 2011 at 12:54 pm |

          Should that definition also maybe include something like “for purposes of adding a black garment or garments”?

          The dropshow on the Mets lettering isn’t all that evil, just an incidental graphic element/tool used to set the letters, visually, up and apart from the background (like the Wisconsin “W” in that respect).

          Adding a bit of black as a trim color isn’t nearly as blatantly about BFBS marketing (or “We’re tough” posturing) as adding a black jersey, hat, etc., it seems to me, anyway.

          Ricko, you did read Paul’s most recent ESPN.com, piece, didn’t you?

        • JTH | May 13, 2011 at 12:55 pm |

          Ugh. Too many commas…

        • Ricko | May 13, 2011 at 1:36 pm |

          From a design standpoint, the Mets dropshadow isn’t all that different from the use of black for detail/definition/effect on the Chiefs or 49ers helmet logos. Or when the ’56 Redlegs had Ol’ Red on the left chest of their road jerseys…with his black handlebar mustasche.

          Using black for that purpose—I was contending and will continue to contend—doesn’t mean, “Cool, now we can have a black jersey.”

        • joe | May 13, 2011 at 1:56 pm |

          Whatever Phil. It’s a term created here. That official meaning can always be changed, especially since we’re the only people that even use it.

          Whether Paul wants to define it differently or not, there is a philosophical difference between wearing black just because it’s “cool”(A’s, tons of NCAA teams), adding black to an existing scheme (Mets), or completely changing the scheme to include black(White Sox, 90′s Pistons, Eagles).

          I think we can all agree that the first example is far worse than the other two.

          Unless of course teams are never, ever allowed to switch their colors… which means that, for example, the Packers are green for green sake, since they did start in blue, after all.

          HEAR! HEAR!

        • joe | May 13, 2011 at 1:58 pm |

          The above comment is from the Jeff. I just wanted to say “HEAR! HEAR!” Sorry about that

        • JTH | May 13, 2011 at 2:13 pm |

          Ricko, my point was that the Mets added the dropshadows not to add definition to the wordmarks, but specifically to add black to the color scheme. Sure, that may be the end result, but it was really just done specifically to work black into the unis.

          As Bob Halfacre said:

          It was a marketing thing. Marketing wanted black. Remember, this was when the black trend was just starting to gain momentum. Lots of hockey teams were wearing it, all sorts of teams. And one thing the Mets were convinced about was that the Yankees were killing them at retail, especially with the hats, because people didn’t like royal blue. So they wanted a darker color, a black element. I know they paid a couple of designers to mess around with it, but nothing worked out


        • joe | May 13, 2011 at 2:27 pm |

          My question is: At what point does “why” black was added cease to matter?
          Charlie Finley changed the colors of the KC A’s from blue and white to kelly green and gold (the colors of his alma mater) because he thought it would bring them attention and look good on TV. Sounds like marketing to me. Yet no one would cry for the A’s to go back to the traditional blue and white.
          All I’m saying is that at some point the Mets colors are blue, orange and black. It just is what it is. Are we at that point yet?

        • thebeezer | May 13, 2011 at 5:20 pm |

          I had always assumed (maybe incorrectly) that the dropshadow was added so the black and black with blue bill hats could be worn with all uniform variations. I’m not sure how the black hats would look with the unis without the dropshadow, but something tells me it wouldn’t flow very well.

          That being said, please ditch the black! I can’t help but shake my head whenever I see the classic pinstripe/blue hat/no black uniform combo and realize that we traded them in for softball uniforms. Can we at least do a throwback uniform game once in a while (which reminds me…does anyone have any pics from the Mets throwback game sometime in the early ’90’s when they wore their 1964 uniforms? Was a game against the Reds who also wore throwbacks).

        • Ricko | May 13, 2011 at 8:06 pm |

          And, Jimbo, I guess I didn’t make it real clear, either. What I meant was that if the dropshadow were ALL the Mets had done, it shouldn’t have been much of a deal.

          So that leaves us with a gray area that seems to be the sticking point here. When a team extensively ADDS black to an existing color palette, with little or no change in the uni design, it seems transparent and shallow.

          When they start over with a new color scheme and new uni design (as did the Eagles, for example) it seems to go down just a bit easier.

          Of course, the other side of that is when it seems like EVERYONE is changing designs and ushering in black (see most of the NHL for awhile there) then that becomes irritating, too. Then it’s a fad, rampant “monkey see, monkey do.”

      • NickV | May 13, 2011 at 3:50 pm |

        Is there any worse combination than Blue Black & Orange all worn together with White trim for added bonus clutter?

        Probably not. The Mets and Knicks look simply horrible in this mess. Lose the Black, and they have pretty good, B+ uniforms ….

  • MG12 | May 13, 2011 at 10:53 am |
    • Shane | May 13, 2011 at 12:59 pm |

      I wanted to get a Stuart Holden jersey but uh..

      Now I just want to go throw up.

  • JTH | May 13, 2011 at 11:00 am |

    That page linked above with all the “stars & stripes” MLB caps really irritates me.

    It’s not the caps themselves, it just bothers me that New Era shows these things with the stickers on the brims.

    If people want to leave the stickers on, fine, whatever. Check that — if kids want to leave them on, OK. They’re kids. Kids are supposed to look stupid. I know I wore some shit when I was a lad that makes me cringe now if I see a photo.

    But to market this stuff as though that’s the way it’s supposed to be worn is maddening.

    I find this advertisement particularly galling.

    • Ricko | May 13, 2011 at 11:10 am |

      Is there a Dodgers-Giants version of that ad?

      • JTH | May 13, 2011 at 11:23 am |

        Hmmm… good question.

        I did find one for Yankees/Red Sox (same model on the left, but a different guy on the right.)

        • Rob S | May 13, 2011 at 1:18 pm |

          Oh. My. God.

          New Era’s gone insane with this shit.

    • Aaron | May 13, 2011 at 11:22 am |

      That ad makes my insides cry.

    • pushbutton | May 13, 2011 at 11:29 am |

      Cubs/Cardinals is not a rivalry. The Cubs would need 5 0r 6 championships in the last 60-odd years to make it so. Just my .02

      • Ricko | May 13, 2011 at 11:34 am |

        Where is it written that a rivalry has to be about winning, other than when teams play each other?

        By that reckoning Harvard-Yale football is nothing because neither team has a prayer of being #1 in the country, and hasn’t for years.

        • JTH | May 13, 2011 at 11:38 am |

          And apparently there was no Red Sox/Yankees rivalry from 1918 through 2004.

        • JTH | May 13, 2011 at 11:42 am |

          And shit, the Vikings have never won the Super Bowl. They can’t possibly have any rivals in the NFC North, can they?

        • LI Phil | May 13, 2011 at 12:55 pm |

          “the Vikings have never won the Super Bowl. They can’t possibly have any rivals in the NFC North.”

          the lions, right?

        • Rob S | May 13, 2011 at 1:22 pm |

          Hey, now, both teams have won NFL championships… granted, the Lions’ last title came before the Vikings existed, and the Vikings’ lone title came as a stepping stone to Super Bowl IV (which they lost).

        • pushbutton | May 13, 2011 at 1:37 pm |

          I started following the Cubs in the late 60s and never heard word one about a Cubs/Cardinals rivalry from Brickhouse, unless he was specifically referring to parts of southern Illinois that were equidistant between the two cities.

          When the Cubs started to get good in the mid-80s, it seems the modern media hype machine discovered the alleged rivalry. Call it what you will. To me it resembles the Globetrotters/Generals rivalry.

        • Ricko | May 13, 2011 at 2:33 pm |

          I’ll give credence to the first graf.
          Second graf is crap. Teams don’t to have to be winners, either of them, to a have a great and longstanding rivalry.

          Kinda wondered about that tha Cardinals v. Cubs thing, too. Seems to be pretty intense, but relatively new compared to the others.

          I wonder if cable TV and “superstations” didn’t help trigger it (combined with Cubs getting better). Prior to that, downstate Illinois was the St. Louis radio and TV market, absolutely. Chicago stations just didn’t reach that far. So, we ask ourselves, did the advent of cable start to foster the idea that downstate should now be Cub territory? That all those folks down around Standard City had been wrong in rooting for the Cardinals all those years? From there, perhaps, did the rivalry ripen? I dunno, but I’ll ask becuase I don’t remember hearing much about it (as one of the great ones) until much before the 1980s.

          Not that it wasn’t a rivalry, it just wasn’t perceived as being up there with Giants-Dodgers, Yankees-Red Sox until recently. Comparatively speaking.

        • JTH | May 13, 2011 at 2:42 pm |

          Just because the announcers didn’t beat you over the head with it doesn’t mean the rivalry was nonexistent. The coverage back then was a bit different, wasn’t it?

          Hell, around here in the early 80s, Bears/Lions was kind of a big deal because of Billy Sims & Walter Payton, then later in the decade it was Bears/Vikings. You didn’t really hear much at all about the Bears/Packers rivalry. But that doesn’t mean it didn’t exist.

          Now, there’s always got to be some kind of backstory, some major drama for every damn game on the telly. So if there is a legitimate rivalry to exploit, you can bet it’s going to be shoved down our throats.

          I don’t think they were more than a minute into 4th quarter of last night’s Bulls/Hawks game before ESPN started running the hypemobile for Bulls/Heat at full throttle.

        • Ricko | May 13, 2011 at 2:43 pm |

          Or maybe, as with so many things before MLB moved west, it just didn’t get the attention cuz was in the Midwest, out there on the frontier of MLB, not on the East Coast where all the important stuff happened.

          Hard to get our heads around sometimes that before the A’s moved to Kansas City in 1955, St. Louis was the farthest west, or south, that MLB was played.

      • The Jeff | May 13, 2011 at 12:37 pm |

        You know what’s funny… the Cubs are actually on the winning side of that supposed non rivalry.

    • Ricko | May 13, 2011 at 11:30 am |

      Nothing like suggesting “We’ll settle this in parking lot” or anything, huh.

      • Rob S | May 13, 2011 at 1:23 pm |

        Yeah, especially in light of what happened outside Dodger Stadium. That aspect of the ad just makes the whole thing even worse!

    • moose | May 13, 2011 at 11:39 am |

      that is a great point james, it is a pretty good way for me to think of it so i don’t pull my hair out. thanks man, i owe you one. so you’re saying your boxer length was longer then your umbros? you pinned your dungarees? you had 50 buttons(including cyndi lauper) on your rolled up jean jacket? you wore your baseball hat so you could see your bangs?

      • JTH | May 13, 2011 at 11:46 am |



        Umm… check. (And don’t forget the buttons all over the painter’s hat — the kind with the neck flap.)


      • LI Phil | May 13, 2011 at 11:48 am |

        im a tad older than yous two, but either those fashion statements never made it here, or i missed them…

        except the boxers being longer than the shorts — that was absolutely the fashion

        i did have a mullet, however, in high school

        yeah, it was the 80s aight

        • JTH | May 13, 2011 at 12:51 pm |

          I was wearing that crap probably more in junior high, maybe freshman year of high school.

          By my junior year, I’d cut the sleeves off the jacket in question. I still have it.

          Oh, and the shorts thing was definitely an upperclassman-years fashion.

        • moose | May 13, 2011 at 1:19 pm |

          you don’t remember safety pins on dungarees? and you don’t remember the little butons on levi jackets? i don’t believe that phil, but james is right, that was junior high.

          and good call james, i forgot painters hats. i had one for a new york minute, but the same day i got one(sans flaps), it blew off my head while i was fishing. nary went back and stuck with plastic batting helmets. i am guessing you were he dishrag who would go around slamming people on the brain-pan so the 4 points would dig into the cranium.

        • LI Phil | May 13, 2011 at 1:36 pm |

          show me a pixture of what you speak, moose, and maybe it will trigger some kind of reflux

          painters hats? check — and remember the carpenter (or whateverthefuck they were called) pants — with the suspenders and like 200 pockets? in white?

          definitely my school was not into buttons, though

          i also painted a steal your face on the back of my jean jacket (there was also lots of zoso art)…those may have been before your time, however

        • JTH | May 13, 2011 at 2:44 pm |

          If I think of it, I’ll get a pic of my jacket when I get home. It’s a beaut.

        • moose | May 13, 2011 at 4:18 pm |

          parachute pants! another good one phil. i wasn’t cool enough for those/ my 6’6″ 275 father with fingers the size of my neck would have put me six feet under had i worn those. i barely survived having my boxers showing, i don’t even want to get into the atomic wedgie the old man gave me.

        • StLMarty | May 13, 2011 at 5:51 pm |

          My dad cut off my rat tail in 85. He did while I was looking in the mirror and combing my spike.

        • StLMarty | May 13, 2011 at 5:52 pm |

          He did “it” while…
          and it was 1984, not 85.

        • LI Phil | May 13, 2011 at 5:58 pm |

          no moose, not that mc hammer shit

          it was something like this, but not dickies…and you didn’t actually wear them with the suspenders over your shoulders…you wore ’em down

          kinda hard to describe

          but those were all the rage there for a little while

  • traxel | May 13, 2011 at 11:01 am |

    Fun Uni Bash, lots of long neck stags although I stuck with the natty light. Good to meet everyone and see a few of you once again!

    Yes, this http://www.flickr.com/photos/65516705@N00/5714919888/in/set-72157626708147762 is from a bit later than the early 70’s, probably meant to say early 80’s. I used to have several of these poly jerseys, as did everyone in my class. I had the Jaws Eagles #7, not shown but a Sipe Browns #17, and a Hart Cardinals #17.

    Name the player in the pic:
    Kramer (always wanted that one)
    Durial Harris? and sp?
    and of course The Mouth.

    • JamesP. | May 13, 2011 at 11:06 am |

      Didn’t get a chance to talk to you, but I loved the jersey.

    • JTH | May 13, 2011 at 11:26 am |

      “…although I stuck with the natty light.”

      You had your cap on backwards as you were drinking them, right?

  • Ricko | May 13, 2011 at 11:25 am |

    This was to be expected, I suppose, but sad anyway.
    Harmon Killebrew with enter hospice care.

    • Ricko | May 13, 2011 at 11:28 am |

      I cannot help but think of a story Killebrew often told the weaves so well together the notion of fathers and sons and baseball.

      He told of his mother complaining to his father that Harmon and his brothers were ruining the yard playing baseball.

      “We’re raising boys,” his father answered, “not grass.”

      • Ricko | May 13, 2011 at 11:44 am |

        On a personal note, as I got my wife and newborn son (our first child) settled into the car to take them home from the hospital in 1973, I flipped on the radio to listen to the Twins.

        Precisely at that moment, on that pitch, Killebrew homered.

        Oh, like a new father isn’t going to remember THAT for the rest of his life.

    • Paul Lukas | May 13, 2011 at 12:18 pm |

      I interviewed Killebrew a coupla times for an ESPN story about MLB’s silhouetted batter logo (which Killebrew believed was based on him, even though the logo’s designer, Jerry Dior, said it wasn’t):

      He was a real gentleman, a class act. Very sorry to hear the latest news about him.

      • Ricko | May 13, 2011 at 12:38 pm |

        Not too long before that MLB logo was unveiled a photo of Killebrew, from approximately that angle and cropped pretty much the same, appeared somewhere.

        I remember because I recall thinking the MLB logo was based on that photo (and on Killebrew). When I first saw it, that is. Later, though, looking at it more closely, it was apparent it was not.

        No comment on Killebrew’s clinging to his notion, just that there was, indeed, a published photo of him out there around the same time that did look a lot like the logo.

    • Gusto44 | May 13, 2011 at 12:26 pm |

      Sad news about Killebrew, he’s one of those players always associated with the Twins, even though he came up with the Senators.

      Strangely, Killebrew finished his career with the Kansas City Royals. One of those great players who finished his career in a different uniform, like Yogi Berra with the Mets.

      • The Ghost of Ross Gload | May 13, 2011 at 3:03 pm |

        As a ten-year-old kid in KC, I thought adding Killebrew was a pretty big deal. He was one of a string of aging veterans (preceded by Orlando Cepeda and Vada Pinson, then Tommy Davis had a cameo in ’76) the team thought would provide that veteran presence and a little power to a young franchise. (Of course, it would have been better if Ewing Kauffman had just swallowed his bile and not forced the trade of Lou Piniella.)

        Poke around enough basements in Kansas City, and you’ll probably find a promo picture the Royals issued in ’75 with John Mayberry and Killebrew standing on their respective sides of the plate. Power from both sides of the plate, baby!

  • Brandon Acree | May 13, 2011 at 11:56 am |

    Hi all,
    I sent in all of the catalog scans, and the files were tagged with those specific years on the site I found them on. I was pretty sure the dates were wrong, but I added it to the file names anyway just to keep the sets grouped together. I forgot about how flickr will show the file names.

  • flip | May 13, 2011 at 12:00 pm |

    After seeing that Winnipeg Goldeyes cap, http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2688/5708823517_d9124e1087_b.jpg I wish the Nationals wouldn’t have gone back to the curlie-q W. That Winnipeg W is sharp.

    • Ricko | May 13, 2011 at 12:13 pm |

      Very similar to the Wichita Braves of the mid to late 50’s, too. The strokes in their version of the “W” were a bit narrower, though.

    • Teebz | May 13, 2011 at 12:27 pm |

      Aaron and I made a deal for that cap. I’m proudly wearing a St. Louis Browns cap and an old Milwaukee Brewers cap around town he sent me. In exchange, I went an grabbed the Goldeyes cap for him. It is the alternate jersey cap, but a fairly rare one simply because it was worn for only one season. The Goldeyes re-designed their logos this season as they are now part of the American Association of Independent Professional Baseball so that cap is no longer being worn.

      • scott | May 13, 2011 at 1:40 pm |

        The primary cap for the Goldeyes this season, the one with the fish embedded into the “W,” appears to be the same as previous seasons, though.

        • Teebz | May 13, 2011 at 1:45 pm |

          Yeah, they added a re-designed alternate. Good catch, Scott. The old ‘Eyes logo remains the same. :o)

  • Mark in Shiga | May 13, 2011 at 12:14 pm |

    Man, I’ve got to get to one of these things. Paul and Phil, when are you guys coming out to Japan, anyway? I’ll wear one of my three-digit jerseys.

  • Teebz | May 13, 2011 at 12:32 pm |

    Ok, so my take on the party…

    1. Jealous and envious. I really wished I could have been there.

    2. Love Aaron’s cap. But I love the amount of stirrups seen in the pictures a lot more.

    3. Mr. Traxel, you have to see if you can acquire another pair of those stirrups! I want a pair!

    4. Moose and his old-time ball glove seem so appropriate: dressed to the nines like the players of yesteryear after a game! By the way, RPM, loving the playoff beard!

    5. Ain’t this community great? Well done, everyone, on another successful UW get-together!

  • pflava | May 13, 2011 at 12:47 pm |

    Adding to the chorus


    Pretty clearly the early 80’s.

    I also remember the Sears jerseys from the late 70’s didn’t have the team name across the chest.

    • Paul Lukas | May 13, 2011 at 1:21 pm |

      I’m leaving the wrong dates up there, mainly because it seems to give everyone something to talk about.

      • Rob S | May 13, 2011 at 1:28 pm |

        After all, there was also a digital watch on one of those pages, and cheap digital watches weren’t yet common in 1972, right?

        Crazy stuff on a Friday.

        • Rob S | May 13, 2011 at 1:29 pm |

          *forgot the tag to close that last comment…*

        • Rob S | May 13, 2011 at 1:29 pm |

          … that would be [/tongue-in-cheek]… apparently, fake HTML tags get treated like real ones.

      • moose | May 13, 2011 at 1:29 pm |

        no way, we have much better things to do then talk about the wishbook. oh crap.

    • moose | May 13, 2011 at 1:27 pm |

      correct. 1979. but i had a bert jones that i swear that was 1979 that said colts above the 7. must have been 1980.

    • Terry Proctor | May 13, 2011 at 4:23 pm |

      That page has got to be from 1981 the early 1980s. The Bungles didn’t introduce the Tiger-striped insert jerseys until 1981.

  • Tinger | May 13, 2011 at 1:22 pm |

    Confirmation (and pics) of the Phillies/Braves throwbacks for this weekend. Per an earlier post, the Negro League jerseys will be worn on Saturday and the more recent throwbacks will be worn Sunday.



    • Paul Lukas | May 13, 2011 at 1:55 pm |

      No zippers for the ’74 Phils? Bogus.

  • KT | May 13, 2011 at 1:25 pm |

    So who had those “exact replica” NFL jerseys back in the day, and whose “exact replicas” did you have?

    I had a white (the only color they made) Bucs’ #63 Lee Roy Selmon and #76 Dave Pear. IIRC, they also made #42 (Ricky Bell) and may have made #12 (Doug Williams). I can’t remember ever owning any others, but I know they were around. With that and an AJD cap, you were stylin’.

    What’s also interesting is the 3/4 length sleeves. I don’t know when the last time an NFL jersey had 3/4 inch sleeves. I know Unitas wore long sleeves often (my #19 throwback has long sleeves).

    • moose | May 13, 2011 at 2:45 pm |

      loved and still love the 3/4 sleeve durene jersey, best thing i ever found on ebay was a size 48 blank bronco.

      other then bert jones, if i was ever allowed to get a second one out of the 79/80, for sure i wanted the white #12 buccaneers something fierce. the sun rose and set in doug williams arse for me. third choice, greg pruitt because i always liked this card. always did like orange teams, homer jordan clemson too. that christmas when i was 9 i agonized over what to ask santa for sears jersey wise. yeah, i still believed in santa sort of, what’s it to ya?

      • LI Phil | May 13, 2011 at 3:00 pm |

        “best thing i ever found on ebay was a size 48 blank bronco.”


        was it brown, or blue?

    • NickV | May 13, 2011 at 4:01 pm |

      Interesting thing about Unitas game-worn long sleeve jerseys – toward the end with the Colts he occasionally wore a long-sleeved MESH jersey. Those are very rare. I believe in the 1971 Super Bowl vs. Cowboys, is you look at the close-ups, the long sleeved jerseys worn by Unitas and Earl Morrall are MESH.

      On Ebay – about five years ago – I bought a BLANK, Navy Blue, durene long sleeve Chargers jersey with 1990 tagging, from MacGregor/SandKnit. Still trying to find a good place to get it numbered. Apparently the Chargers had these made up, but I do not know when/if they were worn.

      I have seen some numbered, game-worn White durene, long sleeved Chargers jerseys from this era show up on Ebay from time to time. Most recent was QB Whelihan #5, and a lesser-known RB ….

      If anyone has a good place to get Chargers numbering done on Blank jerseys, I’d be very grateful for the info.

    • Rob H | May 13, 2011 at 7:03 pm |

      Try to get a White 1977-96 Bucs throwback nowadays. All you can find are the Orange. And don’t even hope to find a 1976 White Bucs throwback.

  • Michael Koch | May 13, 2011 at 1:32 pm |

    According to several reports, next year’s Winter Classic will be Rangers/Flyers at Citizens Bank Park http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=562719&navid=mod-rr-headlines

    • LI Phil | May 13, 2011 at 1:50 pm |


      a repeat for the flyers AND PA?

      not that yankee stadium (probably unavailable due to the new era pinsripe everyone-gets-a-bowl game bowl) is much better, but are they TRYING to kill it off?

      maybe they should shoot for a game in anaheim or tampa

      so…if true, one more orig 6 team (that would make 4 in 5 years) and another repeat

      fuckin joke

      • moose | May 13, 2011 at 2:59 pm |

        there are only so many markets where you can do this. phily is a decent hockey town. honestly, what is the list of us cities that can host this? ny, boston, phily, chicago, detroit, pittsburgh, buffalo, minneapolis, colorado? they are not putting it somewhere where it is going to be sunny and 70, it defeats the point. and phily was in one, but never hosted, and since when did phily and pitt become cities next door to each other, one next to baltimore, one is next to cleveland. rangers-flyers is a great match-up. i would say minnesota should get it but the wild stink and nobody would care(sorry rick), detroit would be a good choice. the nhl is trying to peak interest, that means good hockey towns with national appeal, and/or stars. where do you want the game phil? what should the nhl have done? carolina at ottowa?

        • LI Phil | May 13, 2011 at 3:06 pm |

          “where do you want the game phil?”


          well, since i really don’t give a shit about it anymore, since the NHL is obviously trying to kill it off, let pennsylvania have another game…or hell, soldier field with the blackhawks again, since apparently having a team play twice is completely fine with the NHL

          i was kinda thinking maybe new york, montreal or toronto (or even detroit) — one of the orig six not to host

          but why should my opinion matter — the NHL clearly isn’t marketing this to me

        • Aaron | May 13, 2011 at 3:19 pm |

          I’m the only one still kind of holding out for Dallas at Minnesota, with Minny being the Northstars for a day?

        • moose | May 13, 2011 at 3:41 pm |

          all i am asking is for a solution, since your take is the nhl is stupid. not that i totally disagree, but you have to consider some things to when you crit them.

          1)where in ny since you have the pinstripe bowl going on. shea i guess?
          2)like i said, phily and pitt are tow different cities. phily played, yet hasn’t hosted,and if they are going to host the rangers penguins islanders or bruins make the most sense to play them. some of those teams just played, one of those teams stinks, and the other is the rangers, who stink but they are the rangers.
          3)they already like hockey in toronto and montreal, the point of this gimmick is to fill a stad, and get casual fans involved for the novelty. but even if it wasn’t, unfortunately toronto stinks. montreal, later
          4)detroit should get one of these soon, but i think the problem is where, i guess tiger stadium since lion field is indoors, but maybe there is an issue. lets assume there is not, chicago or if minnesota can get good, minnesota at detroit would be a nice game.
          5) we are left with nyc, but maybe they don’t want to compete for tickets with the bowl game? but if you get one habs at rangers would be a nice us v canada matchup.

          so phila hasn’t hosted, maybe detroit or nyc next year. not my favourite match-up, they could have done beter(detroit) or worse(chicago), but it isn’t exactly a screw the nhl they got it wrong choice either.

        • Ry Co 40 | May 13, 2011 at 3:52 pm |

          BAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!! that’s funny!

          phil, are you also mad that 4 of the last 6 teams are from the atlantic???

          or that 8 of the 10 teams total will be from the east?

          honestly, for the future WC games, i think they should have just had the penguins travel to all the different WC locations and challenge the other teams. LMAO

          “I’m the only one still kind of holding out for Dallas at Minnesota, with Minny being the Northstars for a day?”

          pretty sure you’re the only one… ever… holding out for that…

        • JTH | May 13, 2011 at 3:58 pm |

          If the Red Wings hosted, the game wouldn’t necessarily have to be in Detroit. Ann Arbor or East Lansing could work.

        • LI Phil | May 13, 2011 at 4:02 pm |

          “honestly, for the future WC games, i think they should have just had the penguins travel to all the different WC locations and challenge the other teams”

          don’t think that hasn’t been bantered about the NHL boardroom


          “1)where in ny since you have the pinstripe bowl going on. shea i guess?”

          im not so much arguing for new york for any other reason than it’s one of the original six — call me an old fogey, a romantic, a stick-in-the-mud, but after the pens & slugs proved this could work, i thought the nhl would hit one of each of the orig six cities, each hosting, with one of the “second six” or whatever team made regional/geographical sense or was hot visiting


          “phil, are you also mad that 4 of the last 6 teams are from the atlantic???

          or that 8 of the 10 teams total will be from the east?”

          i don’t even know which teams are in which conferences or divisions anymore — another thing the NHL screwed up years back — and i don’t think the games HAVE to be regional rivalries — i don’t honestly even think the team hosting has to be that good; the game isn’t quite an exhibition but you know the host team will have a huge emotional lift and will try to put on a good show


          maybe i’m wrong, but i thought at least ONE of the points of the WC was to try to showcase old time hockey, at least as far as that is possible; so either one of the original six cities or minnesota should be the first hosts, outdoors, in the elements, wearing throwbacks

          maybe we’re an odd bunch here in that we care as much about the aesthetics of the game as the game itself (or at least, for any sport that isn’t baseball or perhaps football, for me anyway); hence, location & unis are at LEAST as important to me as the *stars*

          again, that’s why i’m probably NOT THE GUY the NHL is marketing this to, and if the game were ANYTHING but the WC, i’d agree … but for this one time, once-a-year special game…what’s so wrong with having the O6 cities host and have no repeat teams?

        • Ry Co 40 | May 13, 2011 at 4:10 pm |

          jan 1st is a sunday

          sunday rules out new years eve night, so that eliminates a west coast WC (or anything west of CHI)…

          so ditch the CAL, COL, MIN, EDM, or VAN home game thoughts…

          DET tiger stadium would work… but… who are they gonna play now? poor DET is stuck in the west, and have lost the great rival matchups vs. TOR, MON, NYR, BOS… gonna bring in SJ or COL and lose the whole east coast? their best shot was CHI (or PIT, but we all know how we feel about that)

          TOR could host it based on fans/market alone… but what great matchup do they have? and who are you going to push to the audience? colby armstrong? half-ass kessel? matter of fact, who outside TOR wants to see them play? nobody? outski…

          BOS/BUF can’t host it…

          MON could very well… hope they host the penguins for phil’s sake ;-) but where would they host it? (not being a smartass… really asking where)

          –i expect MON next year–

          the more you look into it, the more PHI/NRY makes sense (unlike this ramble) <— contradiction? LOL

        • LI Phil | May 13, 2011 at 4:20 pm |

          jan 1st is a sunday

          sunday rules out new years eve night, so that eliminates a west coast WC (or anything west of CHI)…

          you did read they’re planning to play it on january second, yes?

          and how does sunday eliminate a west coast team? they can just play the game at 2:00 (EST) … ok, so the west coast team has to get up a LEETLE earlier…BFD…

          NYE is freakin’ amateur night anyway, so if you care that much about attending a game the next morning, just go to bed a bit after midnight…one night of not getting completely hammered isn’t gonna ruin your life, especially if you care about a hockey game

        • moose | May 13, 2011 at 4:30 pm |

          you want ann arb…that town, or east lansing to host a hockey game on bowl day? last i checked those were college towns. another reason why cowlumbus will never host one, no way he nhl wants to see more sets in a host city watching college football.

          aaron~ dallas at minnesota will be a good idea when 2 rather then 0 of those teams are playoff caliber.

          phil~ ryco raises a good point, these are all eastern teams, people could get just as mad about that. and yes, it is old time hockey or whatever, but it is really just a marketing gimmick for people o give to shits about something most people don’t care about, and it is unfortunate that it takes a winter classic to do that. nyc and detroit will get games, but playing on the road is one thing hosting is another, and this is phila’s first host, so it isn’t out of line. nyr will host the habs or bruins soon, and detroit will host, i guess chicago with minnesota and st louis down. maybe that is why detroit isn’t getting it yet, they don’t have a good regional match-up, and D-C was just a couple years ago. again, it isn’t like this was just worst choice ever.

        • Ricko | May 13, 2011 at 8:32 pm |

          I still say we can effectively remove Canadian teams and markets from the WC discussion. In fact, other than writers and fans fantasizing, has there ever been even the slighest bit of serious discussion of Canada being included? Seriously. I’ve not seen any. The Heritage Classic, btw, is irrelevant to this conversation. Completely different promotion and TV audience.

          The entire reason for the WC is to be a USA showcase on a USA network to, hopefully, attract new USA fans. Involving a Canadian team/market would be, by definition, outside the scope of the “mission” of the event. In one respect including Canada would bringing coals to Newcastle, or, in another, to heat a house you don’t live in.

          I would think that would be apparent to anyone with even the slightest idea of how TV networks (and pro sports marketers) think, and the way they do things.

          (As to the Wild hosting a WC, it would be an incredibly hot ticket hereabouts but a lousy TV draw because they really suck these days. Someday, sure, but not now. Definitely not now.)

        • JTH | May 13, 2011 at 10:51 pm |

          “you want ann arb…that town, or east lansing to host a hockey game on bowl day? last i checked those were college towns. another reason why cowlumbus will never host one, no way he nhl wants to see more sets in a host city watching college football. ”

          Who gives a shit if anyone in Ann Arbor is watching it on the telly as long as there are asses in the seats? Because where would people rather be in the dead of winter, Comerica Park or the Big House?

          It would be a Wings home game, just played 45 minutes away. Did their fans not watch the game 2 years ago? If not, then they don’t deserve to host one in the future.

      • Terry Proctor | May 13, 2011 at 4:36 pm |

        Why not play it at BMO Field located on the CNE grounds in Toronto? Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment owns the FC Toronto soccer club and manages the place. It seats around 22,000 on the site of old Exhibition Stadium. GO LEAFS GO!

    • Christopher | May 13, 2011 at 1:52 pm |

      Ugh… I was hoping Soldier Field in Chicago, which was in the running.

      • JTH | May 13, 2011 at 2:18 pm |

        Selfishly, I’d like that, but it’s bad enough that we’re getting repeat teams/states, but to repeat a city would be incredibly weak.

      • moose | May 13, 2011 at 3:01 pm |

        you just had wrigley, don’t be greedy.

        • SoCalDrew | May 13, 2011 at 7:25 pm |

          Why are the West Coast/Southern clubs not considered as a visiting team?

        • Ricko | May 13, 2011 at 8:42 pm |

          A couple reasons come to mind.
          None of them has a player with the noteriety of AO or Crosby.
          They just don’t have the team-name recognition among “non-fans” that the older teams (or teams with high-profile players) have.

          “Detroit Red Wings? I know them. New York Rangers? Heard of them, too. Nashvile Predators? I dunno; Arena Football, maybe?”

  • Rob S | May 13, 2011 at 1:52 pm |

    I’m a little melancholy about the Red Wings losing last night… valiant effort, but another bad first period proved just too much of a hole to get out of.

    What pisses me off, though, is that they had to lose to a team in all black. And not a simple case of BFBS (especially since black’s been part of the Sharks’ colors since day one), but a deliberate piece of “marketing synergy” – naming this set “BlackArmor” after a Seagate product. If they’re going to do that, they might as well already have Seagate logos on them.

    Jeering the anthem singers won’t garner any sympathy from me toward Sharks fans, either. Stay classy, San Jose.

  • Marv L | May 13, 2011 at 3:13 pm |

    Nothing in the Buffalo Bills “spring collection” features the usual wordmark and there are skinnier versions on a few products…The new wordmark? New Endzones for Buffalo?


  • Les | May 13, 2011 at 4:52 pm |


    I know im going off topic, but has anyone done a feature on what players and fans think of the New era 5950 performance polyester hats now that there into there 3rd or 4th year, I bring this up because I bought a new Indians cap and for me its so hard to get consistancy in size and moulding them to fit the way you could with the old wool 5950s is almost impossable.


  • Les | May 13, 2011 at 5:15 pm |


    Just reading yesterdays page 2 colum on ESPN.com about the Mets and how they came to wear Black, and it stated that the Mets unis where not being made my russell at this point ,however I have a few Mets Authentic Diamond collection jerseys from this period including the first couple of years of black jerseys and black drop shadow,and there made by Russell. Did russell just make retail jerseys? if so how can they have been Authentic Diamond collection jerseys if the Mets didnt wear Russell unis on the field?


    • Paul Lukas | May 13, 2011 at 6:34 pm |

      it stated that the Mets unis where not being made my russell at this point

      No, that’s not exactly what it states. It states that MOST of the Mets jerseys weren’t being made by Russell, and it links to this chart:

      As you see, some of the jerseys from ’95 thru ’99 were done by Russell, but most by AIS.

      • Les | May 13, 2011 at 7:16 pm |


        thanks totally missed that,shows how much marketing as evolved over the last decade,it would be unheard of now for a team to have two offical uniform licencess.

        You should do an article on other Mets uniform designs,one that always interested me was the 93 to 95 unis with the tail on the script and modification of the “Mets”script, I always remember this one as I was really angry that April that the Mets had changed there uniforms as the previous Christmas I had ended a search for an Authentic Mets jersey by getting the Go faster stipe button down jersey, and living in Ireland in the days before internet shopping that was a great achievement, only for the team to change to the Tail unis 4 months later! also the one year 87 road unis always bring back fond memories since one of the few times I got to see the team on TV in Ireland they always on the road!


    • Chris from Carver | May 13, 2011 at 6:53 pm |

      Wasn’t the deal with Russell that they had the rights to sell the “Authentic Diamond Collection” jerseys for public consumption? The teams could still negotiate with manufacturers for their gamewear.

  • Simply Moono | May 13, 2011 at 6:27 pm |

    Hey Paul, did you get that food-related email I sent ya?

    • Paul Lukas | May 13, 2011 at 6:32 pm |

      Um, who are you?

      • LI Phil | May 13, 2011 at 7:42 pm |

        paul, check your email

  • Ricko | May 13, 2011 at 8:12 pm |

    Near the permanent color Twins “TC” on-deck area at Target Field someone has drawn in the dirt, perhaps with the business end of bat, a big circle with a number “3” inside it.

    A nice “homemade” image in the endlessly pre-packaged world of MLB.

    I will note if anyone mentions who did it.

    • Ricko | May 13, 2011 at 9:53 pm |

      Appropriately enough, Twins are in their creams tonight, too.

  • Jonathan | May 13, 2011 at 10:50 pm |

    Seeing where people think the next Winter CLassic should be, besides the reports, why not try St. Louis? Blues vs Kings or Stars to have a “next 6” matchup of the ones who haven’t played yet. From looking at recent NHL adds, it seems that the Blues get a very quick glimpse of advertising as they star Crosby or Ovechkin. Before they or their team is featured in an ad, the Blues are in the ad for a second. The Blues seem like they’re ready to break out, but the NHL seems to hold them back (maybe for good reason so far). Give them and Busch the Winter Clasic, and hopefully we won’t have to deal with freakish weather when it comes.

    • JTH | May 13, 2011 at 10:58 pm |

      “The Blues seem like they’re ready to break out, but the NHL seems to hold them back…”

      The NHL is holding them back? Oh, you’re talking about the other NHL teams that are beating them night after night, right?

      • Jonathan | May 13, 2011 at 11:49 pm |

        true. if they would start winning like they did to open and close the year (no injuries would help), they would seem to get a bit more press than say nashville or la, which are good teams. even with the rebuilding, it’s been frustrating to say the least the past 2 seeasons.

  • JTH | May 13, 2011 at 11:55 pm |

    On a serious note, RIP, Boogeyman.

  • NHL Jersey | May 14, 2011 at 2:12 pm |

    Thany you for your sharing,I like it very much!
    Martin St Louis Jersey

  • Todd Scott | May 14, 2011 at 2:37 pm |

    Kurt Keller…where is you St Louis Football Cardinals Helmut???? That would make the outfit. Saw you at Affton Athletic Thursday night. Realized it was you after you left…

  • Todd Scott | May 14, 2011 at 2:43 pm |

    That would be helmet….