Design of the Times

The Blackhawks lockers have a black-and-white rendition of Tommy Hawk, and the B&W logo really makes the facial features stand out, to a point where the war paint looks like letters. Is this a hidden signature from when the logo was redesigned in 1964? Or does it somehow say Tommy Hawk?”

That is NOT Tommy Hawk. That is Chief Black Hawk.

This is Tommy Hawk:

link

okay messed up the language a bit in @2, but you get the point… just hope I got the apostrophes right :).

I remember a few of those designs from the “Design the Nationals’ unis” ESPN contest being a lot more interesting than what Bud and company came up with. I think there are some pros submitting stuff to those Icethetics contests, but they’re turning out some quality concepts as well.

Write-Your-Own-Will and other legal software are available to laymen these days. That’s the same kind of devaluation to which the Glorious Leader is referring, right? If amateurs can do as good a job as the professionals, so be it.

Are professionals born as professionals or do they start as amateurs?

[quote comment=”357991″]Dig them uniforms!

link

Why the hell did they use an offensive lineman for the Raiders and not McFadden or Fargas? I know we’re horrible, but damn.

I’d almost buy one, but I don’t think it’d look very good next to the McFarlane figures I’ve got.

I agree with Austin. There are quite a few of us “professional” designers that read this site. Most of us do so because while we get paid to design, sports design is hallowed ground. I spend all day on my Mac designing high end office furniture marketing materials. And while that pays the bills, I dream of designing uni’s for teams of all levels. I’ve designed logos for my alma mater’s soccer team, girls bball team, and youth soccer programs. All for free. Seeing them on the field, and possibly getting a shirt or something to show for it is payment enough.

So Scott, you are not the only “pro” out there. And if our work is so much better, it should stand out above the rest. And if you don’t want to participate… that’s fine. But lets be honest, some great designs have come from the hands of people who have just as good of a design eye as you and I, and just chose to feed their family in another line of work. Be glad they have these kind of opportunities to flex their design muscle. We have a fun job. Appreciate that others think so too.

My wife keep this quote in mind when she deals with overbearing parents at her school.

“When a parent shows up with an attitude of entitlement, understand that under it is a boatload of anxiety.”

It seems to apply here.

Devaluing the profession is a tough issue. I am a designer. I have a Bachelor’s Degree in Graphic Design, I have over 15 years professional experience, plus I am always training myself on updated software, and reading thoughts and processes on others in the field.

I do think that many design contests and sites like “logo for $100” etc. are an insult to those who do this for a living.

Change the profession. What if you had a contest to design a home, or install electrical wiring? Wouldn’t architects and contractors say that you’re undercutting their expertise and industry?

It’s hard to take a stand without sounding elitist. It is hard to put a price on work done in a field that values form over function. And if you can find a quicker solution to your problem without costing a lot, so be it. But remember…the quickest and cheapest solution is not always the best one.

I think what Scott might be referring to is the “chilling effect” that might occur from ball clubs not employing design firms to do this work. If design firms going out of business, innovation will be cooled, so the argument goes.

It isn’t a point without merit, but I think everyone on a site like this, or anyone with at least a little understanding of the potential of the internet, sees that innovation is anything but cooled by these kind of contests. We aren’t kids with coloring books, we are people, with opinions, who now get a forum to express them constructively. This is a good thing.

By the way, Paul and gang, thanks for getting the Twitter feed hopping. I was happy to see a post leading me here this morning.

As a professional Web Developer, it pains me when a company decides to go with the boss’ son/daughter whose portfolio consists of a few MySpace themes rather than a professional because it saves them money.

While it is lost business for me, I know they won’t have a professional looking or well coded site. An amateur just doesn’t know the difference, and 90% of the time, neither does the decision maker. But does that knowledge pay the bills? No.

So does it “devalue” the business. Sure, in the fact that I lost out on money because a client didn’t care about quality.

Then again, you’ve got to start somewhere…

Actually, it sounds like Scott’s an insecure jerk. It sounds like the same garbage that the mainstream media spouts to discredit bloggers.

So some High School is opening up their baseball uniform design process to an internet blog and apparently uniform designers around the world are going hungry?

Is Mr. Misner aware that a vast majority of High School uniform decisions are made by the athletic director, a catalog and a supplier? With the major design decisions being the inclusion of school colors and cost?

Or that the rest of the high schools open up such thing to coaches and their students/players?

How is this taking food out of designers mouths. It’s not like the a big pro league or mid-level colleges (where people get paid for such things) are doing this.

Tom Meindel, the man who designed the ball-in-glove logo, was a student at the University of Wisconsin-Eau Claire when he designed that amazing logo. Tom was an Art History major at the time of the design contest, so I highly doubt he was a professional at this time. Tom did win $2,000 for winning the competition. But think, if this contest was only opened to “professionals”, we would have never been exposed to the awesomeness of the ball-in-glove logo that has been a key part in Brewers history since 1978.

“Over the subsequent years, I’ve noticed that designers frequently fall back on this sense of self-importance”–you’ve got that right, Paul. A contest for a high school logo is hardly putting all graphic designers out of work. I’ve entered non-profit design contests. If they could afford a highfalutin professional, they would have done so. Get over yourself, Scott. There’s room for both of us.

I see what Scott’s saying, to a point. If you really want to know what devalues the graphic design profession, just go on ebay and keyword logo design. These designers are basically knockin’ out (for the most part)crappy logos at 70 bucks a pop.

To get paid well in graphic design you first need to get a contract established, where upon both parties know what they are going to get in the end. Design company get’s paid, and client get’s the final logo/branding etc. after many iterations of the logo, brain storming sessions, so on and so forth. The big dollars, in this profession, is not just paid for the end result logo. It’s paid for the endless hours in conceptualizing the logo and getting to know your client for the best end result.

I have no real idea what the Clarksville Wildcats are about, their history, what they’re really looking for. Just know the basics. So, I think it would be fun to simply put something together, off the top of my head, and submit an entry for the contest.

[quote comment=”358000″]Change the profession. What if you had a contest to design a home, or install electrical wiring? Wouldn’t architects and contractors say that you’re undercutting their expertise and industry?[/quote]

This is a hard one to compare as architects, engineers and contractors do have to be licensed.

Now, a contest to design a home? Thats fine. What we do isn’t brain surgery or rocket science. Now, will someone have to make sure your building is up to code, permits, architectural drawings, etc? Yes.

It’s nothing different than a client coming to us and saying here’s reasonably what I want my house to look like. How does that devalue my profession?

Same as a team coming to a graphic designer and saying our initial is “s”, we’re the warriors, heres our logo and our colors are red black and white. How does that devalue the work of a graphic designer?

[quote comment=”358014″]Tom Meindel, the man who designed the ball-in-glove logo, was a student at the University of Wisconsin-Eau Claire when he designed that amazing logo. Tom was an Art History major at the time of the design contest, so I highly doubt he was a professional at this time. Tom did win $2,000 for winning the competition. But think, if this contest was only opened to “professionals”, we would have never been exposed to the awesomeness of the ball-in-glove logo that has been a key part in Brewers history since 1978.[/quote]
True enough, but note that Tom did get paid. Pretty well, in fact, for 1978.

Which was, I think, Scott’s point. “Amateurs” (for want of a better term for people who earn their bread elsewhere) doing the work doesn’t devalue it, but people giving away their work for free does.

This isn’t as much a problem with high schools and non-profits, but it is when professional teams, universities or other entities which could and should pay for design work hold contests. Open the contest up to amateurs and pros, sure, but pay the winner what you would pay a design firm. Then the contest becomes about soliciting ideas from everywhere instead of just trying to score some cheap labor.

What is good design? Good design is developing a solution to solve a problem. Define the problem. A high school sports team needs a uniform and logo that lets them look unified and stand out from the competition. A uniform that defines their intensity and passion for their sport. This is the start, the basis, the foundation for any approach in designing something, anything. That initial thought and start of the creative process is often missing with non-professional designers. Yes, there are cases where someone gets it right, but in most cases I could point out any number of holes in amateur designer solutions. So I say, bring on your crappy designs and illustrations and i’ll sit back, grin, and ponder what next? Some amateur know-it-all’s going to develop a terribly in-efficient voting ballot that leaves hanging chads? Nah, nobody would be that stupid. Leave it to the big boys or prepare to be mundane.

What percentage of the graphic design market is uniforms and sports logos? .1%? If a graphic designer is only focusing on those two: well good luck.

Never forget that “professionals” designed link

I think the answer for Scott is self-evident here.

He should submit a “professional” job to the high school. He should tell them that he is submitting it for their review, but that he still owns the work. He should offer to sell them the rights for whatever “value” he puts on his work.

If, in the school’s opinion, his work is superior to the “free” designs, then the school will gladly pay the “value.” If it is not, then either he “values” his work too highly, or it just might be the case that there are different markets for different work.

When my kids were young, we built a gas pump out of a box, a piece of string, and a funnel. This does not mean that we “devalued” the $50 plastic gas pumps you could by from Toys R Us. It just means that for our purposes, there was no need to pay that price for that product. The “layperson” model was all we needed. Maybe the town preschool needed the $50 plastic one.

Well how about that. You’ve almost articulated free market principles, Paul! Look out, you might be a capitalist!

Swoosh = $35

Top 10 Goalie Masks by Maxim link

I actually think Scott raises very good points about the marketplace for professional design. Good design is not just about being aesthetically pleasing; good design makes society work better. Design is the one place where Socrates’ pseudo-fascist ideas about “virtue” and art actually hold true. I’m not saying we need a priesthood of graphic designers or anything, but good design embiggens us all, and amateur contests like this really do have negative, if tiny and marginal, effects on expectations about the quality of design generally.

That said, we’re talking about a high school, and I have long believed that it is a pedagogical crime for school administrators to use pro ripoff logos and designs. High schools should hold design contests and solicit original work from interested amateurs. It’s just that the amateurs in question should not be the worldwide internet audience; they should be the school’s own students, faculty, and alumni. It is better for everyone, including designers, if places like public schools that cannot afford to pay market rates for design work find ways to do design work on the cheap rather than not doing design at all. No revenue is lost, since such clients cannot afford to pay much of anything anyway, and interest in and awareness of the importance and challenges of design is raised among the participants. It’s all good.

In all things, there is a role for amateurs and a role for professionals. (Or perhaps “professionals” overstates things; “vocationalists” may better describe what creative people do when acting on an interest that is closer to a calling or a passion.) In some fields, such as medicine, the appropriate role for amateurs is necessarily very small. The fewer lives are at stake, and the more a field is driven by artistic creativity, the larger the appropriate role for the amateur.

One thing that characterizes most true professions is an understanding that the profession serves the public good and therefore a commitment to provide some professional services pro bono. If designers want to be taken seriously as professionals, then design likewise needs to adopt a professional ethic of low- or no-cost service for the public good. Which is to say, designers should be willing to do projects such as designing letterhead and athletic logos for public schools or youth leagues for free. (The same would go for libraries, nonprofits, and the like.)

Without such an ethic of public service, design cannot be considered a profession. Rather, it would simply be a form of skilled labor, a trade. Now, I have high respect for skilled laborers — frankly, I believe that my own “profession” of journalism is a form of skilled labor and suffers greatly from delusions of being a profession. But skilled labor imposes on society no obligation to respect the barriers to entry, whereas actual professions do require some degree of respect for barriers to entry.

I could read all the books in the law library, but I would never think it appropriate to try to represent someone in court. But if my neighbor’s car won’t start, I feel no compunction whatsoever about getting under the hood to see if I can get it running. This has nothing to do with the difficulty or importance of the task. Most legal work is not in fact particularly demanding, especially compared to engine mechanics, and in fact an auto mechanic has more lives and safety at stake in his work than do most lawyers. The difference is that one set of work is organized as a profession, while the other is a organized as a trade.

Without an accepted code of ethics that includes public service and pro bono work, design will necessarily be a form of skilled labor, a trade that anyone may appropriately attempt as an amateur or hobbyist, rather than a profession whose boundaries the rest of us ought to accept.

I think the real stumbling block for Scott is the word devalued. If amateurs flood into the the graphic design world it doesn’t necessarily mean that the art and esthetic part of graphic design will get devalued. Yes there will be awful designs, and yes those designs would never have seen the light of day without new technologies that allow the non-professional the ability to create with the tools the pros use. However, some designs will be good, and the bad ones will both have withstand critics and the test of time. Most bad ones will fall by the wayside.

Now as for devaluing the profession of graphic design in the strictly monetary sense of the word, I think Scott’s concerns are more valid. If passable design from a layperson becomes yet another way for corporations to save some bucks, then the professional graphic designer will feel the squeeze financially. The profession of graphic design could become devalued more so than the art form itself.

This is an issue that arises in every profession where art meets commerce.

For me there is an issue of audience or client. What I mean is this: if a 5 year old makes a crayon drawing, that has no place in an art exhibit. It does look nice on the fridge at home, however. A symphony orchestra in a major city will not do a piece by a novice student, but her high school band might give it a go. While it would be ridiculous (and cheap) for a major university or professional team to do one of these contests, we are talking about little high schools. How many people are actually going to see the Clarksville baseball team play? If the work isn’t done by a UniWatch reader, won’t it end up being done by an 11 grade art student? You cannot compare criticism of the Oregon Ducks or Minnesota Vikings with a contest for a school in rural Tennessee. The scope and notoriety of the institution makes a difference in the discussion.

What’s even more annoying it that oftentimes the uniforms for major college programs are designed by…

the football coach.

Chew on THAT reality for a while and see how it factors in here. LOL

—Ricko

[quote comment=”358045″]Hadn’t thought about the Voidoids in years.[/quote]

“I belong to the ____ generation, I can take it or leave it each time”

[quote comment=”358047″][quote comment=”358044″]What’s even more annoying it that oftentimes the uniforms for major college programs are designed by…

the football coach.

Chew on THAT reality for a while and see how it factors in here. LOL

—Ricko[/quote]

Or uniforms for pro sports teams *coughNHLcough* are designed by a GM, sample uniform templates and a pack of crayons.[/quote]

You forgot to throw Reebok in that mix. Can’t forget about being 8% faster because of the material used… meaning everyone has to change their uniform design.

Jackasses.

Was Scott being elitist? Maybe. Does he have valid points? Definitely. I just feel that there are places that need the professional eye and touch, where there are other situations that the laypeople’s work is sufficient (e.g. pamphlets for a small group at the local coffeehouse/knitting group, etc.).

There’s also the group of people who want to become professionals, and in order to do that, they need to practice and learn (having pieces reviewed by a professional and getting tips/tricks rarely hurts), and the smaller audiences, such as the example in Scott’s comments, are great for trying to advance in the profession (especially if the chosen design was theirs).

all i can say about the mystery emailer is – ITS FOR A HIGH SCHOOL TEAM! they more than likely can’t afford a professional designer and if i designed the uni that won i’d be happy just to get one for myself and be able to say that i made it.

I’ve done work for free & for pay. Pay is more helpful to survival, natch. Free can be very rewarding. Unless somebody is only taking advantage of you. Drawing the line at when to not just give it away, is a personal one. My guess is Scott has been burned somehow, and it involved money—either he was low balled or outbid by somebody he viewed as an amateur. That gets tricky & nasty.
However, if the schools, HS or not, don’t at least give the successful designer(s) from UniWatch some of those caps/unis & a well published credit for their work, those schools would be extremely remiss.

For the high schools to design their logo’s and such would be a great opportunity for the students to put their abilities and skills in action. Teaching the art of design, committee, copyright, production, networking vs. them just sitting in a class room and learning about these things in a book and not truly understand how it is done.

[quote comment=”357998″]My wife keep this quote in mind when she deals with overbearing parents at her school.

“When a parent shows up with an attitude of entitlement, understand that under it is a boatload of anxiety.”

It seems to apply here.[/quote]

“There is nothing more annoying than a mother that loves her child.” – Chuck Klosterman. Seems relevant today. no?

Great article…I really am not sure what Scott was trying to say, or maybe NOT say..however I would retort with this,..”If the uniform designer “Pro’s” had a clue….then we wouldn’t have to be even be talking about redesigns or make-overs. There are SO many God awful designs out there today, that this kind of action,(Uniwatch design contest) may just spur someone to go into the Business of this and get things back on the right track!!!

[quote comment=”358059″]

Reebok didn’t design the uniforms. They just changed the cut. Teams could use most any design with it- Dallas and Colorado were the only two that really couldn’t keep their design if they didn’t want to.

Uniform design falls on the teams. Reebok didn’t kill the stripes on the leafs uniform, the leafs did. Other teams kept them with no issues (well, other then the rounded hem).

Gms and packs of crayons. They weren’t forced to use those templates, a good number of teams didn’t.[/quote]

Reebok forced changes in a number of uniforms. The Red Wings’ logo was too big so they had to move the captaincy designation to the opposite shoulder. Can you see the conversation? “Oops. Sorry about that Detroit. Our bad.”

The unnecessary piping on the jerseys? Not dreamed up by a GM. The apron strings were put there by Reebok, and GMs were given an option to add some colour to them. Was it wrong to give that option to the teams? Maybe. But why have the piping at all? That’s a uniform design flaw.

I’m not saying that all teams have these problems, but all had the options. Some teams – “Sens”, “Bolts”, anyone who chose a black alternate – do have poor design ideas. But not all are poor artistic elements.

[quote comment=”358055″]While we’re on the topic of amateur design today, I’d like to present the potential UW Winter Classic t-shirt design that I ran through a website last night.

link. Price comes in around $20 per shirt individually, but if we get 10 or more people interested, there is a price reduction which will be passed on to the people interested.[/quote]

hey! i designed that logo…i DEMAND to be paid

no…seriously

I’m sure my point will go over like a lead ballon, but here it goes.
I guess when I see professional there is a level of background knowledge implied that is not neccessarily available or considered by others. I loved the cap contest and I like this contest. However, looking at the results for the cap I kept wondering since a lot of things looked similar if there was a consideration to copyright laws. The “professional” is bound and held to a standard to consider such a question. In a hypothetical case let’s say a winner comes about that unfortunately looks too much like something else that is trademarked or otherwise copyrighted. The professional is held accountable for not doing the due dilligence behind their idea. The participants of the contest are not and the school is left holding the bag for any damages that may get awarded.

[quote comment=”358066″]I’m sure my point will go over like a lead ballon, but here it goes.
I guess when I see professional there is a level of background knowledge implied that is not neccessarily available or considered by others. I loved the cap contest and I like this contest. However, looking at the results for the cap I kept wondering since a lot of things looked similar if there was a consideration to copyright laws. The “professional” is bound and held to a standard to consider such a question. In a hypothetical case let’s say a winner comes about that unfortunately looks too much like something else that is trademarked or otherwise copyrighted. The professional is held accountable for not doing the due dilligence behind their idea. The participants of the contest are not and the school is left holding the bag for any damages that may get awarded.[/quote]

So no motion “W”s, people. Lose the motion W designs. ;o)

[quote comment=”358066″]I’m sure my point will go over like a lead ballon, but here it goes.
I guess when I see professional there is a level of background knowledge implied that is not neccessarily available or considered by others. I loved the cap contest and I like this contest. However, looking at the results for the cap I kept wondering since a lot of things looked similar if there was a consideration to copyright laws. The “professional” is bound and held to a standard to consider such a question. In a hypothetical case let’s say a winner comes about that unfortunately looks too much like something else that is trademarked or otherwise copyrighted. The professional is held accountable for not doing the due dilligence behind their idea. The participants of the contest are not and the school is left holding the bag for any damages that may get awarded.[/quote]

Right, and after you’ve gotten an amateur winner in your design, thats the exact reason you should have it continued in a professional manner. I don’t think the point of any amateur logo contest is to take the exact work and call it a finished product.

Now, can an HS afford 5 or 10 grand to have a professional logo designed? Probably not. Can they afford a few grand to make sure its finished in a professional manner and doesn’t infringe copyright wise? I’d think so.

[quote comment=”358064″][quote comment=”358055″]While we’re on the topic of amateur design today, I’d like to present the potential UW Winter Classic t-shirt design that I ran through a website last night.

link. Price comes in around $20 per shirt individually, but if we get 10 or more people interested, there is a price reduction which will be passed on to the people interested.[/quote]

hey! i designed that logo…i DEMAND to be paid

no…seriously[/quote]

what’s the uniwatch winter classic? what did i miss??? lol

If you’re a professional and someone finds your work better than amateurs, you need to change professions.

As a graphic designer, I generally agree with Scott. There are many subtleties that make design good, and make it good consistently. Anyone can use photoshop, but that doesn’t mean that their design will be good. Photoshop (etc.) is merely a tool that allows the artist to convey his message. The problem is that there is some design that is overvalued. However, the majority of professional designers are undervalued. People in other related professions (marketing, account management) tend to make more than the designers, yet it is the design that is the show-piece to sell. So, when anyone can go out and create a logo, regardless of training, it does devalue our profession. Anyone can look up symptoms on WebMD, but that doesn’t mean I would trust them to be my doctor. People don’t appreciate enough the work that designers/architects do.

[quote comment=”358063″][quote comment=”358041″]New Minnesota Twins road caps are out…

link
And Royals’ Alt.
link
Twins: I like it. Navy caps with red brims work for me (as long as the unis aren’t pinstriped).

Royals: not so much. Invert the colors (royal crown [cola?] with a powder brim) and it’s much better.

And for the love of God, WHY must New Era keep those gigantic stickers on the brims for the display photos?

[quote comment=”358035″][quote comment=”358032″]Well how about that. You’ve almost articulated free market principles, Paul! Look out, you might be a capitalist![/quote]

And whoever said I wasn’t? (Hint: Not me.) Remember, I’m a freelancer — I make a living by producing something and selling it on the open market. In short, I’m an entrepreneur. Just because I’m not a corporate douchebag, that doesn’t mean I don’t have any sense of capitalist enterprise.

Jeez.[/quote]

Out of curiosity here, how are you not? Doesn’t writing for the Mothership count as “corporate”?

Just sayin’, not hatin’.

[quote comment=”358077″]
The apron strings do not exist on all uniforms. The seams are there and piping can be added to them easily, making them an easy thing to customize. Not incredibly different from the traditional cut having a yoke cut as a different piece that it was really easy to change the color of.[/quote]

So you’re saying that the piping is an option provided to the teams by Reebok? Because that’s what I said. Since it is highly unnecessary and serves no purpose, why have it at all?

[quote comment=”358077″]And letters changing sides is not a huge difference. Also, not really reebok’s fault. The Red wings used the excuse that they couldn’t put the letters over the seams when they released them, but that was a flat out lie. Look at the Panthers Unis. They do it all the time.[/quote]

The Red Wings used that reasoning because that’s what Reebok had told them. They were one of the first teams to debut their new uniforms. It wasn’t because Detroit said, “we can’t have the letter on a seam”. It was because they were told they couldn’t have it on a seam.

[quote comment=”358077″]The red wings could have also chosen to shrink the logo a bit, or even keep it the same size- I think they actually chose to expand it. That would have let them keep it.

And honestly, outside of events with a second chest patch, it’s a more balanced design.[/quote]

I highly doubt that they made their logo bigger. The problem is that they have the wing that goes nearly onto the shoulder. Why wasn’t this a problem before the EDGE jersey, though? CCM never had this issue when designing Red Wings jerseys.

And shrinking the Wheeled Wing is out of the question. No team would ever make their logo smaller to facilitate the captaincy designation.

[quote comment=”358077″]Oh, to be honest I did forget a few unis that had to be changed. The sen’s swoop, the Thrashers white sleeves, some of the sleeve detailing on the preds jerseys… Pretty much all non-traditional design elements that many here seem to hate anyway.

It forced a few changes, yes. But not nearly as many, nor as drastic as you’re trying to claim. Reebok never forced teams to pick a template as has been claimed so many times, nor did they actively try to kill all horizontal stripes. I jest get tired of people blaming Reebok when lazy team executives deserve most of the credit for what happened.[/quote]

In other words, since most of the teams have gone back to the traditional air-knit designs, the EDGE jersey was basically a dumb idea. Which is exactly what I have been saying. The fact that the majority of NHL teams are no longer using the “patent-pending, water-wicking, 8%-faster” material is, in itself, a major design screw-up.

[quote comment=”357993″]So, if my buddies and I play football in the backyard, are we devaluing the NFL?[/quote]

Don’t give them any ideas…

[quote comment=”358080″][quote comment=”358035″][quote comment=”358032″]Well how about that. You’ve almost articulated free market principles, Paul! Look out, you might be a capitalist![/quote]

And whoever said I wasn’t? (Hint: Not me.) Remember, I’m a freelancer — I make a living by producing something and selling it on the open market. In short, I’m an entrepreneur. Just because I’m not a corporate douchebag, that doesn’t mean I don’t have any sense of capitalist enterprise.

Jeez.[/quote]

Out of curiosity here, how are you not? Doesn’t writing for the Mothership count as “corporate”?

Just sayin’, not hatin’.[/quote]

Pretty sure he meant “corporate” as sitting a cubicle somewhere all day, with two weeks vacation, etc.

Anyone hear about US Speed Skating’s new sponsor?

link. Stephen Colbert was admittedly proud of the Colbert Nation for raising over $40,000 in the past two days.

Thoughts on this?

[quote comment=”358086″][quote comment=”358080″][quote comment=”358035″][quote comment=”358032″]Well how about that. You’ve almost articulated free market principles, Paul! Look out, you might be a capitalist![/quote]

And whoever said I wasn’t? (Hint: Not me.) Remember, I’m a freelancer — I make a living by producing something and selling it on the open market. In short, I’m an entrepreneur. Just because I’m not a corporate douchebag, that doesn’t mean I don’t have any sense of capitalist enterprise.

Jeez.[/quote]

Out of curiosity here, how are you not? Doesn’t writing for the Mothership count as “corporate”?

Just sayin’, not hatin’.[/quote]

Pretty sure he meant “corporate” as sitting a cubicle somewhere all day, with two weeks vacation, etc.[/quote]
Hmmmm… I work for a corporation and my desk is in a cubicle and I get three weeks of vacation (it goes up to four next year). Does that make me a corporate douchebag?

I will make the disclaimer that I graduated in May and am currently looking for a job in several fields, including sports branding (I did a decent amount for free while freelancing during college).

I have read since the summer about ads being placed on practice jerseys, and how this was a first step towards logos on game-time jerseys and how it was just another way for teams that already make gross amounts of profit to make more of it.

Now, I understand that this is a high school, and that their profits on such gear would be minimal, but if we use the above principle, what would stop a larger, more profitable sports organization from doing something similar? You’ll get plenty of devoted fans of whatever professional team who have that “I would love to design the look of my favorite team! Just seeing it in-use would be payment enough!”, and suddenly you have created the ultimate enticement; you’ll get maybe more work, for absolutely no cost. It’s no matter what the professionals would do, if you’re getting work for free then that’s the best thing they could ask for. As some would say, it’s a slippery slope.

That all said, I’m working on designs for said High School, in the counter intuitive thought that having such a design in my portfolio would help me get paid for that work in the future… I see me, and everybody else, showing how fruitless my efforts have been. It’s only 11 am here, but I may need a drink…

[quote comment=”358088″]Anyone hear about US Speed Skating’s new sponsor?

link. Stephen Colbert was admittedly proud of the Colbert Nation for raising over $40,000 in the past two days.

Thoughts on this?[/quote]

I think Colbert Nation tries to proudly represent all that is best about corporate America, and this is simply following the time-honored tradition paying your way into looking like you’re involved.

In other words, it’s his bit, and as such, it’s perfect.

Personally, I’d have preferred the luge team. Really would like to see Stephen Colbert take the ceremonial first run. For the screaming, if nothing else.

—Ricko

[quote comment=”358093″][quote comment=”358085″]Scott is right.

As a creative director myself (with a BFA in Graphic Design), it devalues the hard work and expertise that a graphic designer has tirelessly worked at his entire career.

That being said, I’m sure the person asking for help in designing a school uniform was not doing this to “get a freebie” — quite the opposite… this site is full of passionate creatively driven people who love uniforms.

But after reading some responses, it’s amazing to me just how many people think they’re “creative” because they own a computer and photoshop. That’s not to say they don’t have some sort of talent, but when you spend thousands of dollars to attend an art school and walk away with a degree and then have to fight and scrape to earn a living just because some guy says, “my 12-year old can do that on the computer” — you can see Scott’s point.

The graphic design profession does NOT have a union, therefor, it’s not like construction workers, plumbers, electricians, and other trade skill professions who have set hourly or fixed rates. Just try and ask a plumber friend next time to come over and fix your sink on spec. He’ll laugh his ass off.

Look, I think “design challenges” and the other things we see on this web forum are fun and engaging. It’s the asking to produce a professional grade design that will be worn or sold for little or no compensation is what the issue is — and with that in mind, I am on Scott’s side.

Just my two cents…[/quote]

I too am in the graphic/web design world, but I can’t agree with you or Scott.

Things are worth what people will pay for them, and what people will quote out for them. That may be zero dollars for some jobs.

It doesn’t devalue all of graphic design. Do you think Pepsi is going to have a contest to design their next logo for free? No way. They’re still going to pay millions for a logo/corporate identity.

Even medium sized businesses are still going to pay a few thousand for such a job. Because its just that important to them.

Your plumber analogy is off. A better analogy is: My friend could pay a plumber hundreds to install a toilet, or he could have me (an amateur- but someone who has successfully installed toilets DIY) over to help install one for a 6-pack of beer.

Yeah, he’s taking a slight risk. But come on- any of us homeowners know we can DIY our way through most jobs.[/quote]

Ah, but would he be wise to let you DESIGN a new toilet for his home?
(so many aspects in this, aren’t there?)

—Ricko

[quote comment=”358078″][quote comment=”358063″][quote comment=”358041″]New Minnesota Twins road caps are out…

link
And Royals’ Alt.
link
Twins: I like it. Navy caps with red brims work for me (as long as the unis aren’t pinstriped).

Royals: not so much. Invert the colors (royal crown [cola?] with a powder brim) and it’s much better.

And for the love of God, WHY must New Era keep those gigantic stickers on the brims for the display photos?[/quote]
Because they want to look cool. They clearly did not get link

let me also remind you that the BIG TEN logo was created by a college student at Northwestern University for next to nothing and the NIKE logo was created by a college student for $200. the nike swoosh by the way is considered the most recognizable logo in the world. we are talking about a high school team, not the green bay packers.

I am a professional artist, I have been reading this site for as long as it has been around and Paul’s writing even longer than that. This is the first topic that has every prompted me to make a comment. What I love so much about this site is its wonderful mix of design insight and news and a forum that lets public opinion to be expressed. As an artist I constantly find my self in the “a five year old kid could do that” conversation. My response has always been okay show me a five year old kid that has done that. Art and design are such great things because it is a way to showcase ideas visually. It is something that should be encouraged to everyone no matter profession or age because it is another way to think creatively and critically.

This has become my favorite website because it has found a topic that allows people feel comfortable interacting with art and design in a way that could not be done in a museum, gallery, or design class. Letting everyone attempt design and art does not drag it down in value it enriches it. It gives people a context to understand how it works and yes even how hard it is. If there is one thing i have learned in all my years of work it is to appreciate something fully you have to try it even if you fail.

People are doing this for fun and if they produce something so great that it “threatens” designers isn’t that a good thing? A good idea is a good idea no matter where it comes from and good design is good design no matter who makes it. When it comes down to it I want to see the most visually interesting and dynamic things no matter who created it. It just so happens that in 95% of the cases it comes from a designer or artists. But that is not because they are far far superior, it is because they spend far more of their time doing it. I guess what i am trying to say is that everyone is capable of something creative and I get very disappointed when someone cannot realize that this only brings more value to truly great creativity.

-RespectCondor

[quote comment=”358094″][quote comment=”358088″]Anyone hear about US Speed Skating’s new sponsor?

link. Stephen Colbert was admittedly proud of the Colbert Nation for raising over $40,000 in the past two days.

Thoughts on this?[/quote]

I think Colbert Nation tries to proudly represent all that is best about corporate America, and this is simply following the time-honored tradition paying your way into looking like you’re involved.

In other words, it’s his bit, and as such, it’s perfect.

Personally, I’d have preferred the luge team. Really would like to see Stephen Colbert take the ceremonial first run. For the screaming, if nothing else.

—Ricko[/quote]
Did you happen to catch his “tennis lesson” recently? Yeah, it’s actually link.

Oh yeah…

link

[quote comment=”358099″]Anyone else catch the camo jerseys that the Ducks were wearing last nite during warm ups before their game against the Penguins?

I hadn’t seen them before.

I guess they’re wearing them on Saturday:

link

The camo jerseys are for warm-ups only. They will still wear their normal uniforms for the game that night as they raise funds for Operation Homefront. The warm-up jerseys will be auctioned off with proceeds going to Operation Homefront.

Four of the Ducks were wearing them last night before the game against the Penguins.

This video seems to be on topic. It’s funny.

link

Nike logo story. She didn’t exactly get ripped off.

link

—Ricko

Apostrophe User Guide

For proper context, I am a graphic design student who is about to graduate from UNT.

I’m not sure what exactly the original email was brought against, this specific contest or the notion of design contests. Ultimately, will this specific design contest for a high school bring on the apocalypse and simultaneously wipe out any design professional? No. Can this notion help contribute to an overall idea that design isn’t difficult therefore no design is worth the amount of money professionals will charge? Yes.

Now, I am completely in favor of pro bono work when it comes to non profits. These entities are ultimately not gaining monetary benefits so I wouldn’t say a designer is entitled to them either. And I could see an argument for a public (which I hope is true in this case) school having the same standing as a non profit because ultimately any money coming from football games is funneled back into the school anyway. Although i doubt I would do free work for any school besides my alma mater.

My main issue with this like I said is the power of a small notion to have. The idea of spec work has been seen on a large scale level before. A couple years ago, the Indianapolis Colts ran a fan contest to design an alternate logo. I believe they were offering some compensation in the form of tickets but I know it was well below what they would have had to pay a professional firm for the logo.

In the end, if a company is not going to pay the prices some firms charge and they would rather have their secretary create something word, there is nothing we can do about it. It may contribute to the visual pollution of poor design but it’s not killing anyone. However to say that spec work does not affect pocket books of designers is ridiculous. Many companies consider design spec work necessary for work to even be considered. Therefore you end up with 5 firms doing X amount of work and 4 firms not being paid, even though those firms still have to pay their designers that were utilized to work on it. This means firms losing money and people losing their jobs.

P.S.- someone said it and I feel like it got totally glazed over, the Nike logo was done by Carolyn Davidson who Phil Knight paid $35. Once Nike went public, she was awarded an undisclosed amount of Nike stock.

Paul,

Reading your latest blog about Mr. Misner’s comments about logo design contests and the devaluing of the graphic design profession and the fall of capitalism as we know it (alright, that last part was made up and I am now taking my tongue out of my cheek).

He is implying of course that free design work by “amateurs” are doing a disservice to the graphic community at large because they lack the skills and training to create work that design firms charge top dollar for, therefore cheapening the product and lowering the bar for design standards (i.e. see Buffalo Bills – no wait, that was professionally done — no amateur could achieve that).

He need not worry, there are thousands of professional graphic designers and design firms who have all the training that art schools can muster, all the experience one could rely on and still produce lousy design work all on their own. The reason business “doesn’t get it” most often stems from a failure of the designer to execute the design goals of the project. Professional design work is a collaboration between the client and the designer, that is by definition, amateurs working with professionals to satisfy a design need. Since the “amateurs” are paying for the work, they tend to have the final say and this is where the devaluation of the profession occurs.

I offer this opinion based on over 30 years of agency work, mostly with companies that we know and love and sometimes hate for their output. I do not mean to demean Mr. Misner’s comments about “free” work but I feel the blame should be put on the people that have earned it (the Professionals), only by accepting that charge can we then raise the bar on producing quality work that is memorable, timeless and popular.

As for your uni-contests for the masses of regular Joes (small schools who cannot afford designers), I think it is a very good thing to put designers who have a passion for it (albeit some, with limited skills but good ideas) with people who have a need for good design. In the design game one only gets better with practice and these are great practice environments because everyone gets something out of the experience, except pros, who must be paid and would not take the job for that reason alone.

When I do a gig for gratis I apply the same processes I would for a fortune 500 company, but with a twist. I also offer them a way to make money based on the designs (i.e. t-shirt designs, cap sales and such…) so that they can raise capitol on their own to one day be able to pay for future design work. You have to remind your clients that establishing a logo (branding) does not explode from a designers mind onto the world like a lightning bolt, (unless you are Todd Radom, one of the best in the business) but evolves based on what the client wants and what the designer perceives they need.

Lastly, I offer this for the “amateurs” who have a passion for design. The man I consider the best graphic artist this country ever produced, Paul Rand had less than one year of “art school” training. At Marvel comics, (at least when I was there last millennium) all of the great artists there had NO formal art training at all, zip, nada. How is this possible?

They succeeded because they loved the work they were doing and pushed themselves to get better by offering their services to any group for any price, even gratis… because in the course of time all that free work paid off a thousand fold by the constant practice of their craft, it gave them an edge in their chosen fields of design and paved the way to their success.

Larry Torrez
Professional Artist
and proud Uni-Watch card carrying member

[quote comment=”357984″]The Blackhawks lockers have a black-and-white rendition of Tommy Hawk, and the B&W logo really makes the facial features stand out, to a point where the war paint looks like letters. Is this a hidden signature from when the logo was redesigned in 1964? Or does it somehow say Tommy Hawk?”

That is NOT Tommy Hawk. That is Chief Black Hawk.

This is Tommy Hawk:

link
Sorry, I live in Texas… what I do I know about the Blackhawks? Um…. Go Stars!

Excellent writing prompt today. Kudos to both Scott and Paul.

On a different note regarding Darius Marshall from the Thundering Herd.

I played ball with a friend named Darius Marshall.
Unfortunately, he led a life that was cut short by tragedy. He survived being hit by debris and believed to be dead on 9.11 only to become a victim of a senseless accident aboard the Staten Island ferry:

link

R.I.P.

[quote comment=”358122″][quote comment=”357984″]The Blackhawks lockers have a black-and-white rendition of Tommy Hawk, and the B&W logo really makes the facial features stand out, to a point where the war paint looks like letters. Is this a hidden signature from when the logo was redesigned in 1964? Or does it somehow say Tommy Hawk?”

That is NOT Tommy Hawk. That is Chief Black Hawk.

This is Tommy Hawk:

link
Sorry, I live in Texas… what I do I know about the Blackhawks? Um…. Go Stars![/quote]
Apparently, you know about as much as a certain Brooklyn resident.

Paul: It would be interesting to hear your thoughts on this in a few days…after all has been said

Great topic today.

I understand Scott’s feelings, but in the end I side with the free market. The best trained designers will have work – there’s enough to go around.

The problem is, some (not all) designers feel the need to justify their training and skill by adding all sorts of extras – “Look what I can do. Your average kid can’t DIY a jersey with beveled numbers or sublimated graphics,” or something like that. They can also forget about the beauty that can be found in simplicity.

Basically the design-a-cap contest is like “American Idol.” Yes, the majority of contestants don’t belong there, but the cream rises to the top. I don’t think it devalues the music profession or the design profession – in fact, it shows you how hard it is to win something of this nature. Long live competition.

One final thought. Does your place of work have interns? Are they “devaluing” your profession as well? Try doing all your work without their help. Your current business, and the future of your profession, would suffer without them.

[quote comment=”358120″]Paul,

Reading your latest blog about Mr. Misner’s comments about logo design contests and the devaluing of the graphic design profession and the fall of capitalism as we know it (alright, that last part was made up and I am now taking my tongue out of my cheek).

He is implying of course that free design work by “amateurs” are doing a disservice to the graphic community at large because they lack the skills and training to create work that design firms charge top dollar for, therefore cheapening the product and lowering the bar for design standards (i.e. see Buffalo Bills – no wait, that was professionally done — no amateur could achieve that).

He need not worry, there are thousands of professional graphic designers and design firms who have all the training that art schools can muster, all the experience one could rely on and still produce lousy design work all on their own. The reason business “doesn’t get it” most often stems from a failure of the designer to execute the design goals of the project. Professional design work is a collaboration between the client and the designer, that is by definition, amateurs working with professionals to satisfy a design need. Since the “amateurs” are paying for the work, they tend to have the final say and this is where the devaluation of the profession occurs.

I offer this opinion based on over 30 years of agency work, mostly with companies that we know and love and sometimes hate for their output. I do not mean to demean Mr. Misner’s comments about “free” work but I feel the blame should be put on the people that have earned it (the Professionals), only by accepting that charge can we then raise the bar on producing quality work that is memorable, timeless and popular.

As for your uni-contests for the masses of regular Joes (small schools who cannot afford designers), I think it is a very good thing to put designers who have a passion for it (albeit some, with limited skills but good ideas) with people who have a need for good design. In the design game one only gets better with practice and these are great practice environments because everyone gets something out of the experience, except pros, who must be paid and would not take the job for that reason alone.

When I do a gig for gratis I apply the same processes I would for a fortune 500 company, but with a twist. I also offer them a way to make money based on the designs (i.e. t-shirt designs, cap sales and such…) so that they can raise capitol on their own to one day be able to pay for future design work. You have to remind your clients that establishing a logo (branding) does not explode from a designers mind onto the world like a lightning bolt, (unless you are Todd Radom, one of the best in the business) but evolves based on what the client wants and what the designer perceives they need.

Lastly, I offer this for the “amateurs” who have a passion for design. The man I consider the best graphic artist this country ever produced, Paul Rand had less than one year of “art school” training. At Marvel comics, (at least when I was there last millennium) all of the great artists there had NO formal art training at all, zip, nada. How is this possible?

They succeeded because they loved the work they were doing and pushed themselves to get better by offering their services to any group for any price, even gratis… because in the course of time all that free work paid off a thousand fold by the constant practice of their craft, it gave them an edge in their chosen fields of design and paved the way to their success.

Larry Torrez
Professional Artist
and proud Uni-Watch card carrying member[/quote]

Beautifully said, Larry!

[quote comment=”358131″][quote comment=”358015″]ps. that girl’s tattoo is incredible.[/quote]
It is a connect the dots… anyone print it out and see what it was? It is also taped on… :/[/quote]

My guess is giraffe…

Speaking of designs…

Don’t forget, UFL (Las Vegas at New York), 7 pm EST, Versus.

Yeah, there’s that World Series thing, too (so, watch UFL during commercials for, um, contrast and to see how really obvious it is that updated unis are always better than boring, dull, largely traditional crap like Yankees and Phillies).

Need some classy teal and lime, they do, those baseball teams.

—Ricko

Regarding the uni design contests as devaluing the graphics field, I don’t see a problem. As a professional designer I realize there a many people that think they can do it just as good as a professional. Just the same way I sometimes feel as a sports fan when I think I could coach better than some professional coaches. There’s certain professions, especially in the creative world, that all of us think we can improve on. There’s no set rules on creativity, so I definitely don’t have a problem with “non-professionals” dabbling in it. I’m very confident in my talent and don’t worry about the validity of my work because others are trying it. If I’m not good enough with my education and experience to stay at the top of the field, then I don’t deserve to make the money I’m asking for. It’s called free enterprise.

How do you think I became a professional designer? I started doing it for free as a young man and realized I had a talent.

[quote comment=”358000″]Devaluing the profession is a tough issue. I am a designer. I have a Bachelor’s Degree in Graphic Design, I have over 15 years professional experience, plus I am always training myself on updated software, and reading thoughts and processes on others in the field.

I do think that many design contests and sites like “logo for $100” etc. are an insult to those who do this for a living.

Change the profession. What if you had a contest to design a home, or install electrical wiring? Wouldn’t architects and contractors say that you’re undercutting their expertise and industry?

It’s hard to take a stand without sounding elitist. It is hard to put a price on work done in a field that values form over function. And if you can find a quicker solution to your problem without costing a lot, so be it. But remember…the quickest and cheapest solution is not always the best one.[/quote]

Sounds like a statement made by a man who might have once had to drop a deuce near a poison ivy patch.

[quote comment=”358079″][quote comment=”358061″]

I just wonder, could my favorite QB, Drew Brees, who I loved before he even made the pros and I truly love now that he is a Saint, be influencing the Saints to dress in the Black pants just like his college, Purdue? Man, I hope not.[/quote]

Drew actually wore gold pants for the majority of his time at Purdue, it was pretty rare for the Boilers to go black at home or all-black until Drew was gone. I certainly associate that much more with Kyle “dammit Kyle” Orton than I do with Drew.[/quote]

Thank Heavens !!!!

[quote comment=”358067″][quote comment=”358061″]I believe that the Saints wearing BLACK LEOTARD PANTS during their Monday Night Game vs. Atlanta is such an abomination that the grievance should be discussed for at least TWO DAYS.

A lifelong Saints fan and game attendee, I truly believed that the Saints undefeated start, wearing Gold pants for all six wins, would keep the BLACK LEOTARDS in the closet – at least until they lost. But nooooooooooo, they just had to break them out for national TV. HORRID.

The Saints, having worn Gold pants for all six regular season games, as well as all four preseason games, game me the false sense of feeling that the team’s decision-makers (Who in the hell decides which teams wear what they wear? To me, that is a tremendous topic for UW!!!! Particularly how trhe decision makers may vary from team-to-team) had matured and gotten over their trendy, childish gutter fetish with the Black pants.

Apparently not.

Other than family conflicts, taxes, health and work, the Saints Black leotard pants are the worst thing on my mind.

I just wonder, could my favorite QB, Drew Brees, who I loved before he even made the pros and I truly love now that he is a Saint, be influencing the Saints to dress in the Black pants just like his college, Purdue? Man, I hope not.[/quote]

I was kind of expecting the Saints to maybe change things up so they didn’t get sucked into being superstitious. Y’know, better to believe “We’ll win based on how we play, not what what we wear”?

Not saying I liked the look Monday night, but there might have been some good sense behind the apparent madness.

—Ricko[/quote]

I get your point, but I prefer a team to have a pretty traditional template, with detail that evolve over time, but still, a traditional template.

That way, when the team wins big, they do so with a tradition that honors all that have come before them, and creates a linear attachment through the years. I believe that a reasonably consistent uniform does that.

The Saints traditional template is Gold helmet/Gold Pants, White or Black jersey.

When it is messed with, it usually goes bad.
The current deviation is the WORST ever.

Do not get me wrong, I dig many alternate jerseys and I for one LOVE throwback games and unis, but your team should have a reasonably consistent template.

GOOD EXAMPLE:

I shudder that Baylor, that had a Gold helmet/Green jersey/White pants uni for most of 60 years – you could recognize it from the Space Shuttle – has now gone “Oregon” on us with the mix-n-match uni carnival that kills all tradition and connection to anything other than the “newly arrived” racks at a replica jersey store.

Is this a possible Ohio State alternate jersey to be used with a white helmet?

link

[quote comment=”358059″][quote comment=”358048″][quote comment=”358047″][quote comment=”358044″]What’s even more annoying it that oftentimes the uniforms for major college programs are designed by…

the football coach.

Chew on THAT reality for a while and see how it factors in here. LOL

—Ricko[/quote]

Or uniforms for pro sports teams *coughNHLcough* are designed by a GM, sample uniform templates and a pack of crayons.[/quote]

You forgot to throw Reebok in that mix. Can’t forget about being 8% faster because of the material used… meaning everyone has to change their uniform design.

Jackasses.[/quote]

Reebok didn’t design the uniforms. They just changed the cut. Teams could use most any design with it- Dallas and Colorado were the only two that really couldn’t keep their design if they didn’t want to.

Uniform design falls on the teams. Reebok didn’t kill the stripes on the leafs uniform, the leafs did. Other teams kept them with no issues (well, other then the rounded hem).

Gms and packs of crayons. They weren’t forced to use those templates, a good number of teams didn’t.[/quote]
Good point. The teams bear responsibility.

According to Reebok’s public statements, the Avs could have kept their mountain hemline, but elected not to.

Again this is nothing but rumor about Ohio State so who knows

Am I the only one who’s noticed that on one of those Infojocks posters, the Miami Dolphins are identified as “fish”?

can we disconnect the designy talk from the sport uniforms talk. i come here NOT to read that. *sigh*

but for sake of argument, this is a H.S. baseball team. if this was the atlanta braves and not the clarksville high school wildcats i could understanding the idea devaluing the process. BUT, its not.

as I said, its a high school. they have no money. i believe that means they are a public non-for-profit. that means any work “your giving away” is not being given away. it is becoming a charitable donation. charge your rate to the school. say you donated your work to a great cause. get a letter with your value declared on it and the institution’s tax ID. write-off equals less tax and happiness.

ok…back to the sports duds talk!

Today’s discussion reminds me of a saying…

“Remember: amateurs built the Ark, professionals built the Titanic.”

[quote comment=”357996″]So Scott, you are not the only “pro” out there. And if our work is so much better, it should stand out above the rest. And if you don’t want to participate… that’s fine. But lets be honest, some great designs have come from the hands of people who have just as good of a design eye as you and I, and just chose to feed their family in another line of work. Be glad they have these kind of opportunities to flex their design muscle. We have a fun job. Appreciate that others think so too.[/quote]

I’m late to this conversation, but this is a GREAT response. I share the profession and the perspective.

re: Silver jersey and, possibly, white helmet for TOSU (and other team exhibiting such insightful marketing ploys)…

“Well, see, the PLAYERS get bored, and the FANS get bored, and we just don’t know WHAT to do to keep them interested.”

—Rick

Cool, playing Madden for hours can let you rat out on lots of stuff….

(from Sphere.com today)

“The latest Army statistics show a stunning 70 percent of military-age youth are ineligible to join the military because they are overweight, can’t pass entrance exams, have dropped out of high school or had run-ins with the law.

“So many young people between the prime recruiting ages of 17 and 24 cannot meet minimum standards that a group of retired military leaders is calling for more investment in early childhood education to combat the insidious effects of junk food and inadequate education.”

Guys in my generation had to shoot off a toe while duck hunting in their dorm rooms. But, hey, ths works for you…pass the Nutter Butters, right?

—Ricko

Just heard another rumor on 97.1 The Fan in Columbus that it is supposed to be a throwback game vs Michigan not that alternate pic game?

Supposedly from late 1940’s Now that I would be cool with

Thought-provoking discussion today.

RS Rogers, I like the way you slid the Jebediah Springfield reference in there.

I’m a lawyer.

We have to compete with do-it-yourself will kits, paralegals, outsourcing to India, people who got their law degree on Wikipedia, and all sorts of competition.

In my experience, there’s 2 ways I can compete:

1. Hide behind phrases like “I have more education” and “noone can do what we do”, or perhaps using a licensing body to restrict competition

2. be better at what I do, better customer service, more responsive, better quality, whatever

IMHO option #1 is attractive in the short term but is unsustainable. If my business model relies on the existence of professional credentials and restrictions and putting a wall around the practice, in the long term I’m doomed.

[quote comment=”358158″]Today’s discussion reminds me of a saying…

“Remember: amateurs built the Ark, professionals built the Titanic.”[/quote]

that’s a marvelous quote and kind of funny… but really really not true. the guy who built the ark got blueprints from a fabulous professional Designer with a long resume of great work. see Genesis 1.

Okay, just my 98 cents short of a dollar on the whole graphic designer issue (not that anybody cares, but…)

I have been doing graphic design work for about 10 years now, and I can totally understand what the reader who posted the comment a few days ago was saying about people and organizations looking for freebies devaluing the industry at large, but, on the other side of the coin…most of the designers that I know (myself included) work freelance. This means that we need to constantly keep our portfolios up-to-date. An opportunity like this might not provide us with money, but it does, indeed provide us with experience which helps us build our overall resume and in turn land a paying gig (hopefully).

In addition to computer artwork, I also paint, and if you think that graphic design work is tough, just try selling a painting sometime (or even just getting it into a bloody gallery). I dont really keep track of such things, but I’d wager that I’ve given away twice as many paintings as I’ve actually sold. Why? Because it provides an opportunity to walk into a building, or somebody’s home and see your work on the wall someplace other than in just my studio.

For what it’s worth, the way I see it, most schools are struggling right now, and they dont really have the dough to pay a designer what they’re worth. If a designer is able to make a decent living with their art, then they are lucky (I know I still have to work part time at a “real” job in order to make ends meet). But many of us who have to still compete just to get our work out there will go for an opportunity which affords us a chance to get a little visibility at the expense of a paycheck.

Ask any artist in any discipline, it’s tough to get your name out there; sometimes noteriety is better than a paycheck (although I totally understand that you can’t pay your rent with artistic cache, but that’s topic for another discussion) so I suppose the way that I see it (right or wrong) is that nobody is forcing you to participate, and a high school looking to cut costs while probably working on a shoestring budget is not going to have any effect on the “established” artists in the industry either way, but it may help you get one step closer to becomming “established” yourself…

Nothing devalues professional design more than bad design done by professionals. Take the Buffalo Sabres as a prime example. Sure, the team’s owners and the NHL top brass have “crayon on their hands” but when you unleash something so pitiful as the Slugalo on the public, then don’t be surprised that some amateurs are going to think “I can do better.”

I spent an enjoyable afternoon looking at this talented chap’s efforts.

link

Some are great, some are good and some, IMO, aren’t so hot. Nothing is as abhorrent as that Sabre Slug though and it’s that fact that devalues those officially in the game

Let’s not forget that the professional has a much more technical list of deliverables to a client. He can’t just submit a .jpg and say “pay me”. You need vector logos, copyright checks and making damn sure your rebranding doesn’t infringe on anything on Earth!

With that in mind, I don’t think the amateur armed with a copy of Paint Shop Pro is going to be undercutting any pro when a franchise is looking for a fresh look.

“although I totally understand that you can’t pay your rent with artistic cache, but that’s topic for another discussion”

[light hearted sarcasm] I tried that once with my landlord…I gave her a show, now I work for her!

I guess my end of the spectrum of protecting your images is more skewered towards protecting all my companies products (like most production companies)…but in the end, WATCH MY SHOWS!! :)

[quote comment=”358154″]Am I the only one who’s noticed that on one of those Infojocks posters, the Miami Dolphins are identified as “fish”?[/quote]
Maybe they use the same logic some Catholics use, in that if it sprang from the water, it’s fish. Some use that belief to eat fowl during Lent.

As a university-level student in a design program, we get approached and see our share of people and/or organizations offering you to do their logos, brand identity, website, etc. In some cases it is worth it do work for a reduced amount or even pro-bono. There are times, however, where we cringe when a start up company (that has or should have the capital to invest in good design) asks for the whole shebang for a paltry amount or nothing at all.

A designer with common sense should be able to see if an offer is exploitative or not. It is up to the designer consider what is being asked of them, the work/time they’re willing to put in and what they might get in return — both monetarily and in experience.

For me, in the case of Clarksville High School, it would depend on the state of the program and the school. I would have to ask questions such as “is it a public or private school”, “is the school investing enough in it’s own baseball program?”. Perhaps they can find someone local with a good eye, that way if the program can’t exactly afford a “good” price for a design it would be easier to come up with a benefit for the designer.

Bottom line, this is a high school, not the New York Giants.

Tobias Oliva
University of Alberta — GO BEARS GO!
BDes candidate
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

[quote comment=”358032″]Well how about that. You’ve almost articulated free market principles, Paul! Look out, you might be a capitalist![/quote]

Old Polish proverb:
“Under communism, man exploits man.
Under capitalism, the reverse is true.”

[quote comment=”358061″]I believe that the Saints wearing BLACK LEOTARD PANTS during their Monday Night Game vs. Atlanta is such an abomination that the grievance should be discussed for at least TWO DAYS.

A lifelong Saints fan and game attendee, I truly believed that the Saints undefeated start, wearing Gold pants for all six wins, would keep the BLACK LEOTARDS in the closet – at least until they lost. But nooooooooooo, they just had to break them out for national TV. HORRID.

The Saints, having worn Gold pants for all six regular season games, as well as all four preseason games, game me the false sense of feeling that the team’s decision-makers (Who in the hell decides which teams wear what they wear? To me, that is a tremendous topic for UW!!!! Particularly how trhe decision makers may vary from team-to-team) had matured and gotten over their trendy, childish gutter fetish with the Black pants.

Apparently not.

Other than family conflicts, taxes, health and work, the Saints Black leotard pants are the worst thing on my mind.

I just wonder, could my favorite QB, Drew Brees, who I loved before he even made the pros and I truly love now that he is a Saint, be influencing the Saints to dress in the Black pants just like his college, Purdue? Man, I hope not.[/quote]
Amen, death to unicolor fb uniforms. I know they wore gold helmets, but at least some of the players had necks to break up the solid color.

[quote comment=”358174″]Okay, just my 98 cents short of a dollar on the whole graphic designer issue (not that anybody cares, but…)

I have been doing graphic design work for about 10 years now, and I can totally understand what the reader who posted the comment a few days ago was saying about people and organizations looking for freebies devaluing the industry at large, but, on the other side of the coin…most of the designers that I know (myself included) work freelance. This means that we need to constantly keep our portfolios up-to-date. An opportunity like this might not provide us with money, but it does, indeed provide us with experience which helps us build our overall resume and in turn land a paying gig (hopefully).

In addition to computer artwork, I also paint, and if you think that graphic design work is tough, just try selling a painting sometime (or even just getting it into a bloody gallery). I dont really keep track of such things, but I’d wager that I’ve given away twice as many paintings as I’ve actually sold. Why? Because it provides an opportunity to walk into a building, or somebody’s home and see your work on the wall someplace other than in just my studio.

For what it’s worth, the way I see it, most schools are struggling right now, and they dont really have the dough to pay a designer what they’re worth. If a designer is able to make a decent living with their art, then they are lucky (I know I still have to work part time at a “real” job in order to make ends meet). But many of us who have to still compete just to get our work out there will go for an opportunity which affords us a chance to get a little visibility at the expense of a paycheck.

Ask any artist in any discipline, it’s tough to get your name out there; sometimes noteriety is better than a paycheck (although I totally understand that you can’t pay your rent with artistic cache, but that’s topic for another discussion) so I suppose the way that I see it (right or wrong) is that nobody is forcing you to participate, and a high school looking to cut costs while probably working on a shoestring budget is not going to have any effect on the “established” artists in the industry either way, but it may help you get one step closer to becomming “established” yourself…[/quote]

I couldn’t agree more, you damn near took the words outta my mouth. I didn’t take Scott’s words in a negative way, I understood where he was coming from. I like to design as a hobby and hopefully soon make a career out of it. My current level of skill I believe to be “amatuer” but I do enjoy doing every moment of it. If it isn’t in the cards for me to make a living off of it, just getting my work and name out there is definately a reward.

Sometimes those who design for a hobby have more talent than those who are “licensed” to do so.

I think the bigger thing than that potential new Ohio State jersey is what looks like a Virginia Tech jersey peeking in from the corner of the pic. The maroon and orange stripes appear to dissolve into dots.

[quote comment=”358190″]I think the bigger thing than that potential new Ohio State jersey is what looks like a Virginia Tech jersey peeking in from the corner of the pic. The maroon and orange stripes appear to dissolve into dots.[/quote]

nice catch!

im guessing this is what those “sublimated” (or whatever word paul used) jerseys are going to look like

sunofa…

won’t let me hotlink?

fine, i’ll host it myself

[quote comment=”358193″][quote comment=”358185″ ]http://cgi.ebay.com/1935-Chicago-White-Sox-Pitcher-Theodore-Lyons_W0QQitemZ270479496296QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVintage_Sports_Memorabilia?hash=item3ef9d59468

Either this picture is noted wrong, or there is something SERIOUSLY wrong with the Uniform Database. If that’s a 35 White Sox uniform, what’s with that huge dark area around the waist, and what is the deal with the dark rear pocket on the player in the background? Ted ain’t got a pocket of that color.

Me thinks that is not a Chicago uniform.

On the plus side….dig the socks.[/quote]
I don’t have a solid explanation for the difference in pocket flaps (maybe one of them’s wearing pants that are left over from a previous season), but the link appears to be right on the money. Check out the belt tunnels on the road uni. They’re navy blue.[/quote]
…and, of course I linked the wrong image. That was the 1936 Sox uni.

link. Same thing, though — the belt loops/tunnels are blue.

Paul,

I don’t know if this has been posted yet, but Iowa’s Basketball Uni’s Changed last year and it looks like they are adding a white uni compared to the gold and black ones they had last year

link

As an Art Director, I understand Scott’s position on this AND Paul’s. They are both right in their own ways. The concept of design itself is still being debated to this day. And so is the realm of devaluing ones profession. As well they should remain open for debate!

What I see unfolding in the design world is the open access to “similar” tools for design, without the artistic background, or the proper education in the art of professional design. But some people can become amazing self-taught artists to a certain extent. “Good” design is a little harder to learn merely by observation because there is method behind the madness. Organization of information, tied to experience in how to compile that information and design a comprehensive layout that makes that information easily absorbed and looking as good as possible. That takes a bit of effort and background knowledge of a great many things before you can even begin to get into the project at hand.

You can learn how to use the tools, but not why you should or when. Just because you can add a drop shadow to anything you want doesn’t mean you should. Just because you like comic sans as a font, doesn’t mean that font is going to make your business card (or whatever) easy to read, nor will it prove a good font for garnering your business any respect from prospective clients. (comic sans is a terrible font, kerns horribly and even the leading is rough to work with, yuck…).

So now the tools are available to more people, and boy do they have at it, and good for them but that doesn’t make them a pro. It’s one thing to make something look interesting or cool. But what about that deeper meaning, that intangible added quality that comes from truly understanding the subject matter far beneath the surface.

Good design communicates the subject matter in a clear and concise way that requires more than just the ability to use a pen tool or a colored circle.

But that’s not what we’re really talking about here is it? Isn’t this just a sports team logo? So what’s Scott’s beef?

A few months ago I listened to a great conversation on NPR about an individual that had been arrested for making forgeries of hundreds if not thousands of very famous paintings. And it was an interesting point to make that if one cannot tell that it is a forgery does that make it more or less valuable than the original work of art? I mean, how amazing is it to be so good at your craft that you can actually accomplish that level of skill where you can recreate a Rembrandt or Titian painting and not even the most respected appraiser of fine arts could tell the difference between the forgery or the original when looked at side by side?

That just blurs the line of how you value something. And this quest by everyone here to try to define one perspective or the other as being the right one is an exercise in futility, although it can be fun for some people just to debate for the sake of debate.

I don’t mind contests like these. They have their own place and they let people have some fun. I don’t think contests like these devalue my profession, it’s actually the individuals understanding of design as their own personal perspective that pains people like Scott and I. Some people are appreciative and others aren’t. Some people simply suck at life and others don’t.

Here’s a great video that should lighten the mood of this conversation for everyone. In my opinion it does provide non-professional designers a bit of an insiders perspective on what we have to deal with on a daily basis. People trying to tell us how to do our jobs is just something we have to learn to accept…

link

It’s a must watch for anyone that’s got something to say about the topic on this thread.

Enjoy,
Seth

[quote comment=”358201″]I am the one that requested the article about having a uniform and logo design. While I understand Scott’s concerns and respect them, I reached out to this community, instead of paying a professional, because I thought it would be neat for the UW community to have the distinction of designing a uniform set, watching it go into production, and see it in play. But I understand how someone might feel this way.

Either way, I would like to mention that the majority of coaches at the high school level let the local sporting goods store or company rep design the sets for them, so I don’t think I was taking a month’s profit away from anyone. I had even mentioned to Phil that I was more than willing to pay someone for their hard work, as opposed to just giving them some merchandise.

Either way, I think our idea was a good one with good intentions and I can’t wait to see some of the great designs that people work hard to come up with.[/quote]

Exactly. Not like some lucrative high school baseball uni design gig is off the table.

—Ricko

for those following the Ohio State alternate uniforms rumors– this just out from their AD–

A statement from Ohio State director of athletics Gene Smith:

“During spring, 2009, Ohio State was invited by Nike to participate in its Rivalry uniform program with several other universities from around the nation. They offered us a chance to try a new uniform product featuring cutting-edge fabrics and technology; participation in the program also offered us a one-time opportunity to salute one of those great championship teams that have built the Ohio State football tradition.

“Our coaches and players were excited to see the different elements Nike presented in the prototype designs and samples. The uniform elements are still in production, and we are extremely eager to see the finished product when it arrives.

“For this special program, we chose to recognize the achievements of our undefeated 1954 national championship team, winning the Big Ten title outright before capturing a Rose Bowl victory. These great Buckeyes celebrated their 55th anniversary with us at the Minnesota game, and this is another way for us to pay homage to their stellar achievements.

“Our fans will be able to get the first look at these unique uniforms on Sunday, Nov. 15, when we will share photos of the finished product on our website OhioStateBuckeyes.com. Fans can also take a look at the actual uniform up close that week in our official Team Shop in the Schottenstein Center. And our team will wear these custom designs when the Buckeyes take the field Nov. 21 up north in Ann Arbor.

“Again, this is a one-time opportunity to honor a great championship team. We have no plans to make any changes to the traditional Buckeye uniform for the foreseeable future.”

[quote comment=”358205″]High top golf shoes???

link

Would look especially good with baggy, below-the-knee shorts, don’t you think?

i know i don’t have the talent to whip up some design and get paid for it. doesn’t mean i can’t try and then see what other people think. if they like it great, makes me feel good, if not, oh well.

and as far as i can see, some people’s work is undervalued and others is overvalued. teacher’s sometimes are barely above welfare but drug reps make 6 figures.
i just graduated with an aerospace engineering degree in may. the ‘going’ rate for entry level positions is around 40 grand. i’ll probably be making almost double what my mom does even though her teaching position is more important to most people.

sorry for getting off topic there. i guess my arguement/comparison is this:
people complain about immigrants taking jobs away from people born here. most of these jobs are seen as undersirable by americans (landscapers, field hands, trash men). so they’re not really taking away jobs that the people complaining want b/c they don’t pay well enough. so my point is; if you’re a designer and your firm had this contract and you found out how much you were getting paid for it, you’d laugh at it. so let someone willing to do it for however much they want take it. don’t make a big deal out of something you didn’t want anyway

[quote comment=”358209″]A couple of things. First, I didn’t have the chance to read all the way through the comments, but, from what I saw, it was pretty pleasing to see how civil this debate was.

I’m 100 percent with Paul here too. As a journalist, I’ve heard a lot of my colleagues first bemoan the internet (instead of trying to understand it) and then when that failed, working as hard as possible to discredit any blogger “because they’re not real journalists”. There are some things that you just don’t HAVE to go to school to do. Having proper training probably will make you better, but it’s not essential. Kudos all the way around for a great topic today.[/quote]

Not about school. About doing the job right. Just like anything, some do it well, some are hacks.

Believe me, there are plenty of hacks among the print and TV corps, too.

—Ricko

[quote comment=”358204″]for those following the Ohio State alternate uniforms rumors– this just out from their AD–

A statement from Ohio State director of athletics Gene Smith:

“During spring, 2009, Ohio State was invited by Nike to participate in its Rivalry uniform program with several other universities from around the nation. They offered us a chance to try a new uniform product featuring cutting-edge fabrics and technology; participation in the program also offered us a one-time opportunity to salute one of those great championship teams that have built the Ohio State football tradition.

“Our coaches and players were excited to see the different elements Nike presented in the prototype designs and samples. The uniform elements are still in production, and we are extremely eager to see the finished product when it arrives.

“For this special program, we chose to recognize the achievements of our undefeated 1954 national championship team, winning the Big Ten title outright before capturing a Rose Bowl victory. These great Buckeyes celebrated their 55th anniversary with us at the Minnesota game, and this is another way for us to pay homage to their stellar achievements.

“Our fans will be able to get the first look at these unique uniforms on Sunday, Nov. 15, when we will share photos of the finished product on our website OhioStateBuckeyes.com. Fans can also take a look at the actual uniform up close that week in our official Team Shop in the Schottenstein Center. And our team will wear these custom designs when the Buckeyes take the field Nov. 21 up north in Ann Arbor.

“Again, this is a one-time opportunity to honor a great championship team. We have no plans to make any changes to the traditional Buckeye uniform for the foreseeable future.”[/quote]

I too just heard this. The thing is in 1954 Ohio State wore the red or scarlet for most all of the season until the USC game. Then they wore the shoulder yoke cool pattern

[quote comment=”358212″][quote comment=”358204″]for those following the Ohio State alternate uniforms rumors– this just out from their AD–

A statement from Ohio State director of athletics Gene Smith:

“During spring, 2009, Ohio State was invited by Nike to participate in its Rivalry uniform program with several other universities from around the nation. They offered us a chance to try a new uniform product featuring cutting-edge fabrics and technology; participation in the program also offered us a one-time opportunity to salute one of those great championship teams that have built the Ohio State football tradition.

“Our coaches and players were excited to see the different elements Nike presented in the prototype designs and samples. The uniform elements are still in production, and we are extremely eager to see the finished product when it arrives.

“For this special program, we chose to recognize the achievements of our undefeated 1954 national championship team, winning the Big Ten title outright before capturing a Rose Bowl victory. These great Buckeyes celebrated their 55th anniversary with us at the Minnesota game, and this is another way for us to pay homage to their stellar achievements.

“Our fans will be able to get the first look at these unique uniforms on Sunday, Nov. 15, when we will share photos of the finished product on our website OhioStateBuckeyes.com. Fans can also take a look at the actual uniform up close that week in our official Team Shop in the Schottenstein Center. And our team will wear these custom designs when the Buckeyes take the field Nov. 21 up north in Ann Arbor.

“Again, this is a one-time opportunity to honor a great championship team. We have no plans to make any changes to the traditional Buckeye uniform for the foreseeable future.”[/quote]

I too just heard this. The thing is in 1954 Ohio State wore the red or scarlet for most all of the season until the USC game. Then they wore the shoulder yoke cool pattern[/quote]

and re-reading the release– no mention whatsoever about the helmet. ’54 team had the white helmet.

[quote comment=”358209″]A couple of things. First, I didn’t have the chance to read all the way through the comments, but, from what I saw, it was pretty pleasing to see how civil this debate was.

I’m 100 percent with Paul here too. As a journalist, I’ve heard a lot of my colleagues first bemoan the internet (instead of trying to understand it) and then when that failed, working as hard as possible to discredit any blogger “because they’re not real journalists”. There are some things that you just don’t HAVE to go to school to do. Having proper training probably will make you better, but it’s not essential. Kudos all the way around for a great topic today.[/quote]

I agree with you about the bloggers versus journalists debate. I’m currently a sophomore journalism student at the University of Oregon, and it’s really interesting to watch, in real time, as some of the most well-educated people in journalism are trying to cope with the uprising of social media, the death of newspapers and, most importantly, the rise of the internet as the primary news medium.

I’ve written my share of blogs (in my previous life, I have over 100 blog posts), plus I have written opinion pieces for an internet-only sports site (which I linked in my ID– go free advertising) and I am also a copy editor and a freelance sports reporter for the Oregon Daily Emerald, the main newspaper at U of O.

I’ve looked at what is happening to journalism from three different perspectives, and I believe people can be successful writers even without true experience. However, I’ve found that the farther I have gotten into writing, the more I have improved as a writer AND I’ve also found that getting a specialized education allowed me to learn things that I would have never been able to learn by just writing.

I hope that my statement doesn’t fall on deaf ears, because there’s an obvious parallel between the state of flux journalism is in and what Scott Misner emailed Paul about. I think that I am in a relatively unique situation in regards to the other people that have posted today.

I hate not getting to topics until 10 PM EST. Damn you, school/work. Thanks to the two people that read this

Kenny

Just read that the MLB licencing and WorldVision are donating unused World Series shirts. man, that Back-to-Back World Champions Phillies shirt they had in the macy*s ad in the Philadelphia Inquirer will look great among Indonesians.

[quote comment=”358219″]Actually Ohio State had the gray helmet in 1954.

link
What school is that other team? Is that Michigan? If so, it looks like their helmets are backwards, and I didn’t know they had that UCLA/Nebraska/briefly Red Wings font. But blue hats over white tops and maize pants…that’s their look.

[quote comment=”358221″][quote comment=”358220″][quote comment=”358219″]Actually Ohio State had the gray helmet in 1954.

link
What school is that other team? Is that Michigan? If so, it looks like their helmets are backwards, and I didn’t know they had that UCLA/Nebraska/briefly Red Wings font. But blue hats over white tops and maize pants…that’s their look.[/quote]

i think it’s iowa, no?[/quote]
link

Phil,

I replied to your email.

<3<3<3<3

Yes that was Purdue vs Ohio State. The game was at Purdue and Ohio State wore red and Purdue white.

A lot of stories out there about Ohio State and possible throwbacks or whatever. I will believe it when I see it.

Looks like the Evil Empire is going to win this one. Well, they DO have classic unis.

[quote comment=”358228″]Looks like the Evil Empire is going to win this one. Well, they DO have classic unis.[/quote]
Phillies don’t have terrible uniforms either, though I don’t like red pinstripes (and I don’t care that it’s a tradition of theirs, I still don’t like it).
Random epiphany: Ricko once accused the Phillies of throwing royal onto the uniforms for complexity’s sake. (Otherwise, the current unis are almost exactly like the Whiz Kids’.) I wonder: maybe it’s their way of keeping blue from before? Maroon and powder yielding to red and royal, perhaps?

enter sandman

Oregon and OSU are both Nike schools with gonzo uniforms…

[quote comment=”358232″]enter sandman[/quote]
Enter Sandman, Exit 27.

Fox just conducted a post game interview with Charlie Manuel in Yankee Stadium and there was a green Mark Sanchez Jets jersey hanging up right behind his head while he was talking. I don’t have a picture or screen grab, but what’s up with that?

anyone notice the sponsor creep when selig handed godzilla the MVP? hope whoever it was feels like they got their $x00,000+ worth, cuz i sure as hell forgot who the sponsor was

[quote comment=”358213″][quote comment=”358211″]As for the entrance exam, I’d say those are intentional failures. That test is not hard in any way, assuming it hasn’t changed in the last decade.[/quote]

were you in the forces?[/quote]

Not quite. I was talked into joining by my uncle and a recruiter back in 1999. The short version of the story is that things didn’t quite work out. Anyways, the entrance exam was graded on a 1-99 scale with 99 being perfect and I believe it was a 31 being a “passing” score. I had a 95.

Another professional designer here working for institutional clients in the DC Metro area for 25 years…

This is THE conversation in the profession these days, not necessarily a local HS team holding a contest, but much larger well-heeled organizations doing the same thing, as well as the Logos-R-Us sites and services popping up all over the place.

Agreed though, the market does set the value. And the market shops at WalMart. ‘Nuff said on that point.

Which means that what you mostly see are two very distant poles of a vast profession… the gigantic Agency charging tens of thousands for logos (and perhaps this too is part of the problem), and the kid down the street who uses PhotoShop and maybe does have a little innate talent but no training, experience and apprenticeship (and it will not likely matter).

There is however a vast middle ground of design practitioners, most of whom spent their college years studying problem-solving (concepts), craft (typography, color, grids etc) and technology. Then, for those of us who own studios, there’s the admin/business side, managing complex projects, personnel if we’re so inclined, invoicing, marketing our skills to new clients, and managing/serving clients.

Most of us have apprenticed for years and decades, honing our chops in the above 4 categories (thinking, crafting, technology, business)… and I promise you, there are precious few of us who excel in all three areas. Those of us who do excel are really really terrific at what we do. And, if we’re still doing it, we deeply love what we do, as passionately as you love… say, baseball (go Yankees, btw!).

If we sound defensive, bitter or anxious, it’s because we are. Like journalism, our field has woken up in a brand new day, and some of us really love our practice of design so very much that it is tough to roll with these continual punches. We want to practice design. We want our excellent work to be valued in society. We want to make a difference in the world. We do love fonts, but that’s a tiny part of our lives.

All of that said, designers, and journalists, must flex around these changes to survive. The MAIN thing that designers can still “sell,” that the average teenager down the street can’t offer competitively (I’m not saying never, but most of the time), is PROBLEM SOLVING, not font choice.

Will the logo inspire the team? The fans? The advertisers? Will it position the team to win, and win big, in all three arenas? Will the logo endure so that uni-bloggers in the next century are still in love with it?

This is what matters, this is design, this has value.

Which doesn’t negate WalMart, it just has to learn to live in the same world.

[quote comment=”358172″][quote comment=”358158″]Today’s discussion reminds me of a saying…

“Remember: amateurs built the Ark, professionals built the Titanic.”[/quote]

that’s a marvelous quote and kind of funny… but really really not true. the guy who built the ark got blueprints from a fabulous professional Designer with a long resume of great work. see Genesis 1.[/quote]
You have to be kidding me.

Guy was a link.

Sigh, I hate when certain job fields streeeeeetch metaphors to attain credibility. Graphic designers…you are not mechanics, you are not doctors, you are not furnace repairmen, you are not pilots…and if someone can fire up a design program and could a reasonable approximation of your work, well then, that’s your problem, not ours. Besides, as someone pointed out…based on the Bills uniforms or the late 90s Cavs and Hawks uniforms, you’re doin’ it wrong.